Bass Guitar vs Kick Drum

[DNW]

Ok, my first post here, after being a lurker for quite some time.

Basically, anyone got any tips on how to get both a huge bass sound and a thumping kick sound, without them getting in the way of each other? At the moment, I've got the mix about where I like it, except that the kick and bass are kinda combining into one big solid wall of low end. I need some definition down there.

I've got the kick's thump happening at 85Hz, and I've the bass guitar's depth basically happening around it, with a notch taken out at the 85Hz mark. It doesn't seem to be enough to separate the two though. Any more of a notch out of the bass and it loses too much impact.

Ideas?

 

[Nitronium Blood]

Andy counters the kick not being heard by blending the sound of the 'trigger hit' of the kick drum with the miced kick. This adds that slight 'clicky' sound that allows the kick to stand out a little more.

 

[DNW]

Well, the thing is, I can get the clickiness to come out just fine really. It's the low end thump that I'm not getting any real definition with, except in slower parts. In the faster parts, not necessarily blasts, but while there's a bit going on in both the kick and bass, the definition down there just goes to crap.

I'm not a fan of hugely bassy guitar tones... I take out from at least 100Hz down in my rhythm tracks, usually higher... so I figure they're not really the problem.

 

[Nuk3m]

Id suggest look for a sample that fits nicely already and doesnt have to be touched, proberly hard to find. Or either just cut the bass from one of the other, or possibly use all of my suggestions.

Maybe find a mid rangeish sort of clich that isnt to high but still gives it punch and definition.

 

[metalkingdom]

You can slap a compressor on the bass, and trigger the sidechain input with the kick. Mess with your compressor settings a little and the bass will "duck" whenever there's a kick hit.

If you eq your sounds right, you probably don't have to do this with rock/metal tracks.

 

[lessthanenthusiastic]

Andy counters the kick not being heard by blending the sound of the 'trigger hit' of the kick drum with the miced kick. This adds that slight 'clicky' sound that allows the kick to stand out a little more.

Do you mean he throws a sample on top of it?

edit: ok nvm, helps if i read the whole thread.

 

[Ermz]

I personally would have the low-end aspect of the kick happen from 60-70Hz, so as to minimize interference with the bass guitar and give more sub-punch. Realistically the bass guitar shouldn't be reaching down where the thump of the kick happens I'd set a high pass just prior to whichever frequency that happens at. I mean quite realistically the bass guitar doesn't need to reach ridiculous sub-bass levels, unless you're doing a trip-hop or funk track or something...

Scooping the hell out of the kick helps also. All those low-mid frequencies in it just contribute more to mud.

Andy's C4 setting is invaluable in controlling that region of low-end, so I would definately recommend slapping it onto whichever tracks needs it. I've found it quite useful when doing some baby mastering here at home. Stops the mix getting out of control.

 

[DNW]

Yeah, I've been thinking of shifting the 85Hz thump of the kick a bit lower to make a lil more room for the bass. So far I haven't had too much luck with this kick/bass issue, but I'll give that a shot tonight.

 

[Benny H]

Wouldn't it be best to find the resonant freq of the kick and let it decide where it's 'thump' is?

Here, I'll just quote from where I learned this.. a poster on another forum.

"Find the resonant Freq. of your bass drum by boosting the gain on a soloed bassdrum track, set a narrow Q and sweep the parametic eq arround the 50-90Hz range.(You are looking for the Freq. that resonates the most), From my work with DFH I've found tomas bassdrum to be around 64 Hz. The resonant Freq. is the only freq. that you should boost(if needed for more punch) You can cut the boxiness out of a bassdrum from about 150-500.(this will help the Guitar and Bass to shine through) The snap of the head is at 1500-3000Hz with harmonics up to 8-10KHz.

 

[Ermz]

Benny is right. Best way to 'shift' the resonant bass frequency is by using a different bass drum/tuning it different/putting the mic in a different spot (this is in my limited experience with bass drums.. I'm by no means a drum expert).

Having said that, perhaps '85Hz' wasn't the dominant bass frequency of your bass drum. So just get that narrow bell curve and sweep it across your low frequency spectrum until you find the spot where the bass jumps out at you most. Hopefully it will be no higher than 80Hz.

 

[Benny H]

Just had the thought: what about EQ or multiband compressor with trigger input, is there such things? I mean, instead of a compressor 'ducking' the bass out at the instance of the kicks, just duck the 'kick zone' of frequency out.

I guess you could do this by splitting the bass track in 2, so to speak. One part with the problem area filtered completely out, and one part with the lows/problem area only. Then do the straight forward, triggered compressor thing... on the low track.

 

[veil the sky]

maybe.... but aren't all these ducking techniques going to cause the bass sound to thump/pulsate? also you're removing frequencies with a lot of energy on the beats of the track which might affect the overall power of the mix.

surely it's got to be a question of instrument matching first and foremost. of course it's going to be easier to use a different bass being as you will have already recorded the drums! or alternatively stick to using a 100% triggered kick sound.