Best Cannibal Corpse album?

[Bruticus]

How many bands were sounding like that in fucking 1991?

Cannibal Corpse is as responsible for brutal death metal as Suffo, if not more.

yeah they had a distinct sound for an early 90's band for sure. But the whole idea a single band was so original they basically created a genre, I'm very wary of. There are rare examples of that happening, Fear Factory with the syncopated guitar patterns and double kicks locked in... It's usually a bunch of bands not just one, perhaps not as famous. And plenty of bands were pretty brutal even back in the early 90's.
I'm just curious as to actually how 'influential' CC really were. Like I can see Death's influence on later bands, or Morbid Angel, Deicide, Suffocation... not so much CC.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

the fact is that very few bands were playing that kind of death metal.

so if you play a violin, and i try to play a violin like you but dont have the skill and do it at a much more amateurish level then i somehow become an innovator? Is that how it works

I don't care about what the band said

ok cool. You dont care that the band is pretty much stating facts of how things were. No problem.

I can ask you how they musically "invented" BDM but after saying saying that you think they contributed more than Suffocation im almost sure you're not going to have any valid answer for me.

Compare Butchered with Altars, Severed Survival, Leprosy/Human, Cause of Death, Deicide's S/T... all of them are quite different to each other.

i agree with this, they all had their own sound on the same take of music. One was pretty much amateur hour compared to the rest. Care to take a guess on which one of those bands it was?

I ditched thrash altogether and kept listening more death and black metal up to this day.

im sorry to hear

 

[Allfader]

so if you play a violin, and i try to play a violin like you but dont have the skill and do it at a much more amateurish level then i somehow become an innovator? Is that how it works


ok cool. You dont care that the band is pretty much stating facts of how things were. No problem.

I can ask you how they musically "invented" BDM but after saying saying that you think they contributed more than Suffocation im almost sure you're not going to have any valid answer for me.


i agree with this, they all had their own sound on the same take of music. One was pretty much amateur hour compared to the rest. Care to take a guess on which one of those bands it was?


im sorry to hear

1- Butchered doesn't sound amateur at all. It's actually quite tightly performed. If you think THAT was amateur, then Obituary, Autopsy, early Death and many thrash bands were kindergarten kids hitting trashcans for fun.

2- What the band said (assuming it's true, Idk) it's irrelevant. There are countless liars and false modest mofos in the metal scene. It might be the same thing that believing Quorthon or late Tom G Warrior.

3- I would say that CC's input in brutal death metal consisted on:

-Steady pace and specific drum patterns/structures.
-Vocals and lyrics
-Production style/sound
-Riffing
-Bass role/presence in the overall sound.

4 - You and the bruticus guy finally get it.

5- With the arrival of death metal, thrash became pretty pointless to me.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

1- Butchered doesn't sound amateur at all. It's actually quite tightly performed. If you think THAT was amateur, then Obituary, Autopsy, early Death and many thrash bands were kindergarten kids hitting trashcans for fun.

In that exact same interview they talk about how they finally felt like a legit band that can do what their peers were doing with The Bleeding.

2- What the band said (assuming it's true, Idk) it's irrelevant. There are countless liars and false modest mofos in the metal scene.

I agree that musicians can be liars and sometimes even surprisingly clueless as to what they're talking about, but this one was an interview of a bunch of current and old members and most of them pretty much said the same thing as far as their skillset went and what they were trying to do at the time. And its not like its some secret or anything, everyone has pretty much known all of that.

3- I would say that CC's input in brutal death metal consisted on:

-Steady pace and specific drum patterns/structures.
-Vocals and lyrics
-Production style/sound
-Riffing
-Bass role/presence in the overall sound.

i dont agree with anything there(outside of the lyrics which i already mentioned) except maybe the last one about the role/presence of bass in death metal. Barnes didnt create the guttural growl, and the rest is mostly just nonsense. For the tenth time, trying to do what others where doing but not having the skill set to do so does not make you an innovator, hence my violin analogy.

I personally think they became tighter and tighter as they went. By the time Corpsegrinder was in the band they already had legit chops and now are up there with the best of them imo.

4 - You and the bruticus guy finally get it.

um what?

5- With the arrival of death metal, thrash became pretty pointless to me.

again, im sorry to hear of this unfortunate conclusion you came to.

If you think THAT was amateur, then Obituary, Autopsy, early Death and many thrash bands were kindergarten kids hitting trashcans for fun.

Lol. That is all.

 

[Bruticus]

3- I would say that CC's input in brutal death metal consisted on:

-Steady pace and specific drum patterns/structures.
-Vocals and lyrics
-Production style/sound
-Riffing
-Bass role/presence in the overall sound.

Bands just don't mention CC as an influence much though. They really don't. I've only listened to/read so many band interviews, but it really hasn't come up generally from my experience. Morbid Angel, Death... those names come up very often. You'll hear bands naming the Swedish scene like Entombed for influence, but I can't remember even one band mentioning CC as an influence, I'm not saying there are none lol but Corpse don't seem to be a band that gets paid homage a lot despite being a major band. And again, few bands sound like them at all. They're almost like that band that's just there, that everyone knows about.

And those points you've listed seem like a list of their qualities, not of the innovative features they're known for bringing to the genre that actually influenced newer bands. I'd say just Webster's bass and perhaps Mazurk's bomb blast.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

@Allfader I have a two part question for you.

Do the BDM bands of today sound closer to Suffocation or Cannibal Corpse?

Does early Cannibal Corpse sound closer to Suffocation or the other bands you mentioned?

 

[jimmy101]

I'm as big a CC as anyone, but am leaning towards what Tech is saying here. Though Bruticus raises a good point about Webster's role in the band & being a highly influential bassist.

Funny thing is, CC seemed to reach their creative apex in the late 90's-mid 00's. After that they kinda went all elementary again.

 

[CiG]

Bands just don't mention CC as an influence much though. They really don't. I've only listened to/read so many band interviews, but it really hasn't come up generally from my experience. Morbid Angel, Death... those names come up very often. You'll hear bands naming the Swedish scene like Entombed for influence, but I can't remember even one band mentioning CC as an influence, I'm not saying there are none lol but Corpse don't seem to be a band that gets paid homage a lot despite being a major band. And again, few bands sound like them at all. They're almost like that band that's just there, that everyone knows about.

Depends on the interviews you read. Why would you expect Cannibal Corpse to come up in an interview with a band that is trying to sound like Deicide or Morbid Angel? If you read interviews with brutal death metal bands they will come up much more often.

 

[Bruticus]

I'm as big a CC as anyone, but am leaning towards what Tech is saying here. Though Bruticus raises a good point about Webster's role in the band & being a highly influential bassist.

Funny thing is, CC seemed to reach their creative apex in the late 90's-mid 00's. After that they kinda went all elementary again.

They ran their course. There's only so many things you can do with diminished arpeggio evil death metal tremolo riffs and chuggy power chords, Lombardo and blast beats and growling about murdering people in gruesome ways. I've been a big fan myself, but they've been very one-dimensional. That one dimension, they mastered brilliantly and renewed to death and kept the one formula exciting and top notch quality for decades, but it's still the one dimension. You know what you're going to get when the next one is released, and after a while, you naturally can't generate the excitement for yet another one of those. They've been doing it for the money for a while now, which is understandable, they have families and this is their desk job. But obviously neither the artists nor the fans can produce much enthusiasm when it's been 30yrs of that. They're old now. They're all about 50.

 

[Allfader]

@Allfader I have a two part question for you.

Do the BDM bands of today sound closer to Suffocation or Cannibal Corpse?

Does early Cannibal Corpse sound closer to Suffocation or the other bands you mentioned?

Do death metal today sound closer to Morbid Angel and Deicide than Possessed or early Death? Can you see how silly is your argument?

If you will mix Morbid Angel/Deicide influenced death metal (like Centvrian or Luciferion) with brutal or technical death metal, there's not much to do or say.

In the brutal death/slam community Cannibal Corpse are seen as definitive pioneers. Even in tech death, Cannibal Corpse is considered one of the first and most important bands of the genre.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Do death metal today sound closer to Morbid Angel and Deicide than Possessed or early Death? Can you see how silly is your argument?

Are you saying there arent tons of bands today playing bascially the same tried-and-true formula of old school death metal? Dont be silly

If you will mix Morbid Angel/Deicide influenced death metal (like Centvrian or Luciferion) with brutal or technical death metal, there's not much to do or say.

look the fact of the matter is CC sounds closer to all the other old school bands were talking about than actual brutal death metal. They also sound much closer to those bands than they do to Suffocation, a band which is truly responsible for the birth of BDM. They are/were referred to brutal by name and that was just used as a descriptor for a lot of death metal from way back. They are not a "brutal death metal band" and were far from being one of the first technical deaht metal bands. I tell you that they were basically bottom tier as far as skill goes and you turn around adn tell me they were also responsible for the invention of tech-death? Are you delusional dude? Suffocation, Atheist, Death, Cynic and a bunch of other technically inclined death metal bands already had albums out when Cannibal corpse were still learning how to use their instruments with their first few albums.

In the brutal death/slam community Cannibal Corpse are seen as definitive pioneers. Even in tech death, Cannibal Corpse is considered one of the first and most important bands of the genre.

you clearly wouldn't know shit because you sound like someone who doesnt actually know many people in said community. I already told you why/how they're influential on the genre, and it basically has nothing to do with their watered down version of old school death metal. And the fact that they were the best selling/mos popular death metal band in the 90's also helped them with their "pioneer" status you keep talking about. It's like you are not honestly using your head here and just going off of what you've read or heard from some e-children. They're about as brutal death metal as Venom are black metal.

 

[Allfader]

Suffocation, Atheist, Death, Cynic and a bunch of other technically inclined death metal bands already had albums out when Cannibal corpse were still learning how to use their instruments with their first few albums.

The bold ones are far more progressive death metal than technical, understanding as tech death bands closer to Cryptopsy,, Necrophagist and the like than Cynic or Spheres-era Pestilence.

you clearly wouldn't know shit because you sound like someone who doesnt actually know many people in said community. I already told you why/how they're influential on the genre, and it basically has nothing to do with their watered down version of old school death metal. And the fact that they were the best selling/mos popular death metal band in the 90's also helped them with their "pioneer" status you keep talking about. It's like you are not honestly using your head here and just going off of what you've read or heard from some e-children. They're about as brutal death metal as Venom are black metal.

Strange, as I actually know a lot of musicians of that scene, given I've been playing metal live since late 90's. For example, I used to play death metal many years ago with the guitar and bass from Chile's Nun Immolation, which is a brutal death metal band. I've known for years the guys from Cadaverous Incarnate, Chronicus, Batakazzo, Dr Zaius, Visceral, Hail Caligula, among many others and I've seen brutal death metal bands live since at least late 90's/early 00's.

I saw, for example, Death + Incantation + CC in november 98, before that, Morbid Angel touring Domination, among many other gigs on mid/late 90's onwards. I think I know a bit about death metal.

What I can't understand is your fixation on "watered down ODSM", when the only time they sounded like that was on the debut. Butchered onwards, they made their own sound and that album and Tomb don't sound like everybody else's death metal.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Suffocation is the band that laid down the foundation and groundwork for brutal AND technical death metal(along with Death, Atheist and a few others). That is basically an undisputable fact.

Cryptopsy is another band that has musically contributed more to sound of BDM(and tech-death also btw) than Cannibal Corpse ever did. Their first two albums are way more brutal than anything CC has ever done and was pretty far from what most of the other guys were doing at the time.

And maybe you dont get what watered down means. I'm not saying they didnt have their own sound ... im saying it was a watered down elementary version of what everyone else was doing. And that was because they didnt have the skill or talent to do otherwise.

The bold ones are far more progressive death metal than technical, understanding as tech death bands closer to Cryptopsy,, Necrophagist and the like than Cynic or Spheres-era Pestilence.

they are all technically inclined bands, like i said. Technical death metal was born with the bands you actually have bolded. Suffocation(and Cryptopsy) also laid the groundwork for the more modern tech-death. You seem pretty clueless for someone whos actually been playing metal since the 90's.


edit: im actually still laughing at the fact that you implied they were one of the first technical death metal bands lmfaaaaooo. you really sound like a well informed and educated musician hahaha

 

[Allfader]

S

they are all technically inclined bands, like i said. Technical death metal was born with the bands you actually have bolded. Suffocation(and Cryptopsy) also laid the groundwork for the more modern tech-death. You seem pretty clueless for someone whos actually been playing metal since the 90's.

Progressive metal bands are technical almost by default. Tech death as is understood now is what I said. Cynic never was tech death, only progressive death metal, just like Death was.

I agree that Suffo IS one of the first bands that laid the foundation for tech death, but so was CC. If you can't hear/see that, then the clueless one is you.

CC, Butchering onwards, wasn't a "basic" version of the sound/style of anyone else. This is just your insight, your own feeble mind telling you that for whatever reason that I can't understand. It's so strange that you dismiss CC's influence so much that I can only think you're trolling about it. I'm not even a huge CC fan to begin with, but it has been always pretty clear that they had a huge role on "brutalizing" death metal since 1991. In fact, CC got even more technical over the years that today there's no doubt that they belong to the tech death scene.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Dude you sound like a fucking child. Death were indeed a TECHNICAL DEATH METAL BAND(maybe in your feeble mind all you think of is modern tech-death when talking about the sub genre?) ... clearly you seem to not understand some of the most basic things that i have stated already, for example i already said that CC are now a technical death metal band that can play with the best of them. And i never "dismissed" their influence, i actually pointed it out clearly. But whatever, im done with this since it seems like im actually talking to a clueless child rather than someone who claims to have been a part of the scene since the 90's. The fact that you think CC were responsible for not only the creation of BDM but also technical death metal shows that you belong nowhere near this subject.

Early CC being just a basic/watered down version of death metal isnt an opinion. It's a fact. One that is also stated by almost every member of the band. But i guess you know better. Anyone with a working set of ears knows that Cannibal Corpse were pretty much just a death metal band back then. Nothing more and nothing less.The only thing they're truly "invented" was the sound of "average" death metal. People liked their version of watered down death metal, which is the reason they sold more than every other death metal band in the 90's and you saw every stupid little kid wearing their shirts. You seem to be mistaking popularity and the use of the word BRUTAL, which has been used for almost every other death metal band we talked about back then ... but im sure you knew this too since you were around back then amirite?

 

[SonOfNun]

Don't get the love for The Bleeding myself, I don't think I ever could get into that one even when I was almost exclusively blasting CC in my earliest days.

@Krigloch the Furious Did you ever buy anymore CC albums?

 

[CiG]

Funny because that grew to become one of my favourite Corpse albums.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

View attachment 30607

@Krigloch the Furious Did you ever buy anymore CC albums?

Lol, nope

 

[SonOfNun]

Funny because that grew to become one of my favourite Corpse albums.

Yeah, I know. I thought it was interesting how quickly that turned around for you.

Lol, nope

bro wut? You don't own Butchered at Birth?

 

[CiG]

Yeah, I know. I thought it was interesting how quickly that turned around for you.

I respected the musicianship on The Bleeding but I always felt like Barnes' vocals showed big signs of deterioration on it, and it used to ruin my enjoyment. At some point a few years ago it just clicked with me. I go through varying periods of retardation.