Black Metal and Hipsters

[General Zod]

Is there really a US city named Tripoli?

The Treaty of Tripoli refers to a treaty we signed with Tripoli.

Zod

 

[Plastic Nathrakh]

really i think it would amaze some of you ameriguys how not-christian sweden is nowadays. christians aren't taken seriously by anyone and are complete outsiders, which of course suits their whole schtick what with the bible prophecies about the endtime and all that jazz. but no matter. christianity has turned from state religion to subculture here in a timeframe of about 50 years, it's really amazing

at this speed we'll be, for all intents and purpsoes, rid of this plague in my lifetime

Here, Christianity is more symbolic than anything with the people who claim to have faith. I don't know anyone under age 30 that goes to church for worship purposes. As a young person living in the US I can say that unless you live in Mississippi or some other redneck area of disillusioned baptists, everything you've said applies to where I live......

they're closing rural churches left and right because no one comes to services any more. good thing, too. i say convert them all to whorehouses and pubs or tear them down and use the material to make huge fucking runestones

Fucking Hipster.

All you dumbasses who trash Christianity then turn around and talk up paganism like it's really any different need to die in a fire. It's only cooler because it is more under the radar. HIPSTER!




...panthers are really just leopards....WTF?!??!

 

[Johanna]

really i think it would amaze some of you ameriguys how not-christian sweden is nowadays. christians aren't taken seriously by anyone and are complete outsiders, which of course suits their whole schtick what with the bible prophecies about the endtime and all that jazz. but no matter. christianity has turned from state religion to subculture here in a timeframe of about 50 years, it's really amazing

at this speed we'll be, for all intents and purpsoes, rid of this plague in my lifetime

they're closing rural churches left and right because no one comes to services any more. good thing, too. i say convert them all to whorehouses and pubs or tear them down and use the material to make huge fucking runestones

This is so not true. Have you ever been to Nordmaling?!!?!?!?!?! (well I know for a fact that you have but anyway). They love jesus here - just loves him.

 

[Krilons Resa]

1) LOL @ this entire thread.

2) Shaddup French Fry.

 

[lurch70]

Erik getting dissed from 2 continents ... come on Nico, lets make it 3

 

[cthulufhtagn]

why can't you name your lecture "gonna talk about black metal: i'm a fucking idiot"

i laughed

 

[Blind Guardian]

This is so not true. Have you ever been to Nordmaling?!!?!?!?!?! (well I know for a fact that you have but anyway). They love jesus here - just loves him.

Nordmaling seems spiritual indeed, and in my work I've been to many homes there. I think it's safe to say that many smaller rural areas like that still have a different view on religion, even in Sweden. It seems however that it's just generally one or two places in each municipality, like Husum here has a lot of these goofy characters and is also close to Nordmaling. Maybe that's a sign of them seeking eachother out.

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

I'm surprised you guys don't have much homeopathy. The rest of Europe is filled with it.

I think its everywhere in loads, but nobody really considers it a religion. I'm sure there are some, but others just go "I've tried all the other options, why not".

It's all Sunn O)))'s fault.
Seriously.

hahaha, Sunn sells out huge clubs instantly in Berlin.



As to religion and crap, I'm fairly certain that religion is jsut as "not serious" in many parts of the US as in Europe. The key difference I've noticed, is there isn't any "sensitivity" towards religion, because its not an issue. Nobody cares. Religious people do their religious thing, the rest of us go have fun.

Note: this rule doesn't apply everywhere. There are cities like Paderborn or Bielefeld (but who wants to go there) that are highly religious fuckholes. They are also boring and nobody really wants to live there.

 

[Nico]

It's all Sunn O)))'s fault.

Seriously.

Someone (I can't remember who) stated it best the other week: that's like blaming Faith No More for nu-metal.

 

[einride]

That's probably true. However, unless you're living in a country, or lived there for an extended period of time, it's hard to truly appreciate what makes a nation tick. For example, in this thread, as well as others, you've talked about how Christian America is. In reality, religiosity is very much regional. The coasts are very secular, the fly-over states are religious.

i know as much but i'm talking about the differences that are obvious when, for instance, you read any american newspaper website vs. any swedish newspaper, like the default point of view on a given issue is more often the christian one in america

Any belief that America was founded by religious people or on religious principles is false. The first colonies were established for trade. The only mention of god or religion in our constitution is there to separate our government from religion. Our forefathers were mostly deists, who openly ridiculed Christianity and those who believed in the bible. And our forefahers (in one of the few unanimous Congressional votes) actually proclaimed, in writing, that American was not a Christan nation.

Treaty of Tripoli...

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Zod

your money says "in god we trust" on it i think i have a pretty good case here

This is so not true. Have you ever been to Nordmaling?!!?!?!?!?! (well I know for a fact that you have but anyway). They love jesus here - just loves him.

but it is true. there is a definite dechristianization going on, the trend is pretty unmistakable and unyielding, and the fact that some places are slower to adapt than others doesn't really mean anything

 

[einride]

Nordmaling seems spiritual indeed, and in my work I've been to many homes there. I think it's safe to say that many smaller rural areas like that still have a different view on religion, even in Sweden.

have you read "norrlands akvavit" by torgny lindgren

it does a good job of explaining why the nominally christian spirituality and the "different view on religion" in rural norrland is not necessarily so christian after all

 

[einride]

Fucking Hipster.

All you dumbasses who trash Christianity then turn around and talk up paganism like it's really any different need to die in a fire. It's only cooler because it is more under the radar. HIPSTER!

actually there is a VERY REAL and FUNDAMENTAL difference between judeo-christian religion and what i'd like to call natural religion (because "paganism" sounds like black lace dresses and finntroll albums) but i'm not going to get into that with someone who thinks i am being serious that sweden should erect gigantic runestones from material made of churches

well to be honest i think it would be really awesome if it happened but i don't necessarily think it is a thoughtful use of resources. you could pave roads with it or maybe make an artificial island off the coast somewhere in the shape of an inverted cross

also what do runestones have to do with "paganism" please explain

 

[Johanna]

but it is true. there is a definite dechristianization going on, the trend is pretty unmistakable and unyielding, and the fact that some places are slower to adapt than others doesn't really mean anything

Ropa inte hej förrän du är över bäcken.

 

[einride]

Ropa inte hej förrän du är över bäcken.

it's a continuous process it is not a thing that suddenly stops existing and it is hardly premature to recognize some patterns of change

 

[Blind Guardian]

I'd say nothing is really changing per say, just that Christians are getting older while new ones rarely come about any longer, so yeah we probably won't see it around much longer.

 

[einride]

I'd say nothing is really changing per say, just that Christians are getting older while new ones rarely come about any longer, so yeah we probably won't see it around much longer.

that is pretty much what is happening yeah so i don't know you can say "nothing is changing" and then go on to accurately describe the way things are changing in a pretty dramatic fashion

in 1930 (almost) every one in sweden was christian. today (almost) no one is. 80 years is not a long time.

 

[General Zod]

i know as much but i'm talking about the differences that are obvious when, for instance, you read any american newspaper website vs. any swedish newspaper, like the default point of view on a given issue is more often the christian one in america

Not true. If one thing can be said about our media, is that it's biased. Half leans one way, the other half the other. So, it would completely depend on whether you were reading a Right leaning publication or a Left.

your money says "in god we trust" on it i think i have a pretty good case here

Not really. First, it says "In God We Trust", not "In Christ we Trust." Second, and more importantly, this expression didn't appear on our currency until 1956, as a product of McCarthyism. It reflects the insanity of the 1950s, not our nations founding beliefs.

but it is true. there is a definite dechristianization going on, the trend is pretty unmistakable and unyielding, and the fact that some places are slower to adapt than others doesn't really mean anything

Agreed. And this can't happen soon enough.

Zod

 

[Johanna]

in 1930 (almost) every one in sweden was christian. today (almost) no one is. 80 years is not a long time.

again: There are still PLENTY of people who are christian here (as in sweden), young and old.

 

[einride]

Not true. If one thing can be said about our media, is that it's biased. Half leans one way, the other half the other. So, it would completely depend on whether you were reading a Right leaning publication or a Left.

i'm pretty sure we're not talking about politics here, although i realize that republicans are religious to a greater degree than the democrats, but the democrats are still farther right than our rightmost party and more religious than our old state church.

what it is, is i notice a general air of christianity surrounding american media and pop culture that isn't there in countries where it's not as deeply rooted. like there's god this and god that everywhere. i'm gonna do a small test here and go to CNN (because CNN is the first american media outlet i can think of off the top of my head, i don't know or care what their political leanings are)

here are some of their current top stories as of 14:35 swedish time

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/17/goldman.brazil.custody/index.html
""Hopefully the rule of law, God, nature, human decency, will be followed and Sean will come home to reunite with me, his only parent.""

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/12/16/mideast.ancient.shroud/index.html
jesus jesus jesus

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/16/florida.dna.exoneration/index.html
Bain's mother said that while her son was in prison he "turned away from God, because he thought God abandoned him."

i'm literally just clicking random pages on the front page here, not looking for anything in particular. it's hard to explain to you maybe but in sweden religion is private. you do not talk about god in a public space lest people think you're a fool.

Not really. First, it says "In God We Trust", not "In Christ we Trust."

so what am i supposed to interpret it as? something to do with the zionist occupation government?

Second, and more importantly, this expression didn't appear on our currency until 1956, as a product of McCarthyism. It reflects the insanity of the 1950s, not our nations founding beliefs.

i'm gonna say you're probably right here but the whole money quip was just a joke anyway

 

[Evil?]

My input on the topic of religion:

I live in a conservative area of Michigan and I see the things Erik is talking about every damn day. For 99% of the people I encounter on a daily basis, the christian viewpoint is like an automatic default for them whether or not they are practicing or not. Around here it is shocking and very frowned upon to not be christian even to most young people.