blending amps for the same DI (Bi-Amping)

[Lasse Lammert]

some of you asked me to blend the 2203 track with something more saturated...
well, here you go:

2203+Recto blended

definitely a way to thicken up your tracks if they need thickening.

this is double tracked, one guitar performance each side, but the DI tracks were reamped throigh the 2203 AND the Recto, the resulting sound is what you hear here

 

[TonyS.]

Are the amps at the same level and did you align the tracks or something?

 

[Trevoire520]

Damn Lasse that sounds awesome! Best tone I've heard from that set of DI's so far I reckon. Really thickens things up nicely.

How'd you go about making sure things were phasing correctly?

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Real amps are analog, there's no latency.
with every triode stage the phase gets flipped, so the amps might be exactly 180degrees out of phase, but the phase will not be shifted, so as long as you're using the same mic-speaker distance (that gap is the only place where actual latency occurs) you'll be fine by just flipping the phase (if necessary).

yes, these were roughly the same volume

 

[musickey]

Sounds awsome man

 

[Lon]

did you also use the same cab or did you 'just' make shure the micing distance was the same to avoid phase issues?

 

[Lasse Lammert]

used the same cab-/mic setup, I didn't even move the mics

 

[Lon]

used the same cab-/mic setup, I didn't even move the mics

ok, im gonna try to replicate this in digital territory, did not have much success until now blending different plugins, but i always went the route of making 2 independent sounds and blending them afterwards, this time i'm gonna keep the virtual "mic-stage" identical.

 

[Robert W]

Talk about synergy. Those two amps definitely sound better mixed than they did on their own.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

So chunky, mother of god

 

[colonel_claypoo]

a tiny bit less saturation and I'd call it one of many perfect tones.
good work lasse and thanks for sharing.

can anbody kindly point me to the DI's? i can't remember where to look for them. thanks!

 

[Bromigo]

a tiny bit less saturation and I'd call it one of many perfect tones.
good work lasse and thanks for sharing.

can anbody kindly point me to the DI's? i can't remember where to look for them. thanks!

I agree with the less saturation. The saturated sound kinda drowns out the larger-grain chunkiness of the 2203.

I have a theory about this that I am soon planning to implement into handmade guitar amps. It basically has to do with the way an amp clips, and using parallel gain stages to blend different clipping types to result in an overall thicker sound.

To me, there are essentially 3 different types of amps. Saturated, with a very "small grain" gain voicing. By grain, I mean how a distorted amp sounds like it cuts the sound on and off very rapidly. The smaller the grain, the more rapidly the sound "cuts out". These small grain amps are ones like Rectos, 5150s, SLOs, ect. All of these have predominant asymmetrical clipping which gives them that saturated tone. This is the modern, American high gain sound.

The second type is "medium grain" amps. These are amps that have a drier sound than the small grain amps, but still have a chunky, unique saturation to them. They sound a bit more "raw" than small grain amps. Examples of these are most Marshalls, Splawns, and basically anything else that is voiced similar to a Marshall. This is the "vintage" voicing.

Then, there are "large grain" amps. These amps can have a wide variety in sound, and it can by difficult to point amps like this out because at times, they are designed to have so much gain that they saturate to the point of a "small grain" amp. They are usually clipped rather symmetrically, resulting in more odd order harmonics which gives them a biting tone and tight bass. Examples of these are the Uberschall (mostly at lower gain levels), ENGL amps, VHTs, Diezel Herbert, etc. These are some of my favorite amps as they must be clipped and configured in a more unique way and therefore tend to sound very distinguishable. These are typically the "British" voiced amps.

I will eventually be using this knowledge to develop some of the fattest, most versatile amps you will encounter. I don't want to give away too much info as much of this is a trade secret in the works, but I figured it is good info for you guys to have either way. Try blending amps of different grain sizes and post your results. You may be surprised with the sounds you can achieve.

EDIT: I realize this kinda became a rant of sorts, but I find it relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[P-E]

Agreed about a tad less saturation. Other than that this is such an amazing tone, keep it up Lasse.

 

[DaveBlack]

You are the tone king, my friend.

 

[crillemannen]

Sounds great but not the best tone from you, i think there are room for improvement on the guitars actually. Sounds a bit like an ampsim (flamesuit on) can be that they are a bit to saturated. It kind of lacks the chugga chugga on the mutes which we are used to hear on a good tube amp.

Btw would you like to share the DI's with a stereo track of the drums?

 

[Mago]

+1 on the less saturation fraction, feels a bit "too much" overall, even if they seem to blend very nice...maybe lowering the recto track a bit, or pull some freqs down that may summ up could be worth a try
My favs of these sets are still the Earforce clips I think

here are the DI's + Backing again
BACKINGTRACK AND DIs DOWNLOAD

 

[lelahel]

the krank rev1+ is in wich category?

I agree with the less saturation. The saturated sound kinda drowns out the larger-grain chunkiness of the 2203.

I have a theory about this that I am soon planning to implement into handmade guitar amps. It basically has to do with the way an amp clips, and using parallel gain stages to blend different clipping types to result in an overall thicker sound.

To me, there are essentially 3 different types of amps. Saturated, with a very "small grain" gain voicing. By grain, I mean how a distorted amp sounds like it cuts the sound on and off very rapidly. The smaller the grain, the more rapidly the sound "cuts out". These small grain amps are ones like Rectos, 5150s, SLOs, ect. All of these have predominant asymmetrical clipping which gives them that saturated tone. This is the modern, American high gain sound.

The second type is "medium grain" amps. These are amps that have a drier sound than the small grain amps, but still have a chunky, unique saturation to them. They sound a bit more "raw" than small grain amps. Examples of these are most Marshalls, Splawns, and basically anything else that is voiced similar to a Marshall. This is the "vintage" voicing.

Then, there are "large grain" amps. These amps can have a wide variety in sound, and it can by difficult to point amps like this out because at times, they are designed to have so much gain that they saturate to the point of a "small grain" amp. They are usually clipped rather symmetrically, resulting in more odd order harmonics which gives them a biting tone and tight bass. Examples of these are the Uberschall (mostly at lower gain levels), ENGL amps, VHTs, Diezel Herbert, etc. These are some of my favorite amps as they must be clipped and configured in a more unique way and therefore tend to sound very distinguishable. These are typically the "British" voiced amps.

I will eventually be using this knowledge to develop some of the fattest, most versatile amps you will encounter. I don't want to give away too much info as much of this is a trade secret in the works, but I figured it is good info for you guys to have either way. Try blending amps of different grain sizes and post your results. You may be surprised with the sounds you can achieve.

EDIT: I realize this kinda became a rant of sorts, but I find it relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Bromigo]

the krank rev1+ is in wich category?

I would say the Rev1 sounds more like a "small grain" amp.