Bootlegging...

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

The timing of this thread is partly inspired by Bryant's rebellion against Glenn's NO DIGITAL CAMERA rule at next year's ProgPower USA. But I've actually been meaning to bring the subject up since last spring.

How many of you are really into bootlegs to the point where you'd buy one off of Ebay?

Personally, bootlegs are cool to watch, but I seldom watch them more than once unless it was a show I was at. Most boots are single camera shots with shitty audio from a single mic. Where is the entertainment in this? Looks like shit, sounds like shit. No matter how good the music might be, if it sounds like it's eminating from a garbage can down the street, what's the point? I don't get the appeal of bootlegs (other than from an addicted collectors standpoint) and I don't see why this is a big deal with some bands.

It's not like fans aren't going to buy your new DVD release because they've already got a copy of your most recent concert via bootleg. The DVDs or live CDs have multiple cameras shot by professionals and are recorded through the soundboard for God's sake, fathoms above anything bootleg quality.

I think it's a whole lot of bitching over nothing. If the bee is buzzing that loud in their bonnet, they should be focusing on legally attacking the ebay sellers who are charging money to fools who are willing to give it (thinking they're getting a dvd quality product), not the people who buy tickets.

That's the bee in my bonnet.

 

[carnut]

I don't get the fuzz either. Mostly bootlegs are spread free or swapped among real fans of particular bands. I like bootlegs of shows I've been to, just for having a souvenir... I believe bootlegs in NO way influence the record or DVD sale of bands. Other case is when people start to bootleg for profit reasons. Than it's up to the bands to find them and catch BIG money at court, simple as that. And don't come up with the "we have no time for that" excuse. Give me one day internet and I can catch dozens of bootleg sellers...
Bootlegs though WILL help band to build up a very loyal fanbase.
I think the bootleg problem has to do with some bands (and managers)that have egos from here to Mars ...

 

[Wheezer]

I like bootlegs but not video boots. And for all of the reasons you stated. They're kinda cool to look at once, maybe twice.

I have a few audio-only boots that I like a lot. There's a coupla Queensryche shows from tours that I saw that help me remember what it was like to be there. I've got an absolutely killer boot of a Stevie Ray Vaughan show at Red Rocks. I never got to see him live so that's about as close as I can get. That version of Tin Pan Alley just absolutely kills. I do have most of the official video releases of his shows.

I do have a few other official releases of concerts. Most of them are taken from the tours I saw the artists on. Again, they're more to spark my memory. That, and the sound is a whole lot better than what I heard in an all-purpose arena.

I'm a live music type anyway. I don't go to see a band reproduce note-for-note. I like to see them change up the solos from the studio version. I like to see them open a song up into a jam. Even if it's a designed jam for their live performances, I'm only going to see it once.

 

[Narcosynthesys68]

I have made some other points on another post but here is a few things that I see...

#1. The quality of a vid Boot is usually shit. So with this fact I don't know many metal heads that would value a BL over a Official Release. Even if a person had a BL he/she would chose to have the Official Release also, IF THERE WAS ONE AVAILABLE.

#2. If the band or record company or promoter doesn't want people to Boot something, then make something Official available. Iced Earth always comes to mind when I think of nothing available. Jon sits around whining that he has a bad deal with his Record Company (which I am sure he does, but he signed on the line, not us). I still am waiting for a damn DVD of Iced Earth live... If I had a bad record deal, I would encourage EVERYONE to tape my shows... Then I would have an assload of material to pick and chose from when I did get my head outta my ass and put out a live DVD...

#3. Mentioned over at the PP forum... These bands USE the bootlegged stuff for the Official Release. How many Official Vids do you all have that DOESN'T have some kinda bootlegged stuff on it??? Two that quickly come to mind are the Armored Saint releases... Yeah, I know... Those were before all of this new technology but still, wouldn't have existed if someone hadn't booted it. And yeah, I have the VHS and DVD of A Trip Thru Red Times... They sold me twice!

#4. YES IT IS ILLEGAL. Does anyone drive over the speed limit? That is too and it is a heck of a lot more "relevant" in real life that booting a show.

And Trans-Siberian Outcast, I think your last few sentences are why Bryant blew up.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I don't know about you guys.. but i loved the Cliff Em All video and some of that footage was bootleg and the sound quality was good.... but that one was the exception not the rule.. but that one is also a good example of how bands can let their fans tape these shows then use the footage for a release... but that was when Metallica were cool about it and Lars wasn't much of a primadonna bitch... lol

 

[SavaRon]

Bootlegs do nothing for me at all. I don't even listen to many official live albums, so why the hell would I listen to some shitty bootleg. The only bootlegs I have are the Dream Theater ones from Ytsejam records and I don't even consider them bootlegs really. They were professionally recorded and sold on their site. They are unique because of the cover albums they did and that's why I bought them. And to be honost, I don't even listen to those much at all. A few times when I first got them, and now the only time I hear anything from them is when they come up radomly on my computer or stereo.

Bootlegs are collected by extreme fans of the bands, not casual listeners. These people generally buy everything the bands put out anyway so what's the problem? If anything it helps the bands, especially metal and other underground types of music. Some bands understand this and others never will. I could give a crap either way, but it sure started a shit storm on the ProgPower board!

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

#3. Mentioned over at the PP forum... These bands USE the bootlegged stuff for the Official Release. How many Official Vids do you all have that DOESN'T have some kinda bootlegged stuff on it???

I don't have that many video concerts, but NONE of them contain shitty single-camera, single mic recordings. I'd be pissed off if the band made me pay for bootleg quality recordings, calling it an "official" release! Fortunately, I have the luxury of researching official releases on the Internet and I'm always careful to make sure that any DVD concert I buy is of high quality.

I like Jon Oliva's approach. He realizes that Savatage is sorely lacking in the live video concert area. Fact is, they've got nothing official. He doesn't mind boots, and doesn't mind dedicated Savaholics trading them. That's his only caveat, trade to your little heart's desire, but don't pay for them. That's fair.

 

[Wyvern]

Don't care about bootlegs. I have seek for two in my life, and from those I already have one on silver-bttomed CD and one as MP3s. As for video bootlegs, I abhor them. No sense in a fuzzy video and bad sound IMO.

NP: Cryonic Temple - 'When Hell Freezes Over'

 

[Mxgonzo]

I used to get bootleg videos. For the most part I stayed away from the single camera ones. I would look for the ones that the bands themselves recorded but never released or when they were on t.v.shows. Shows like Rock Concert,Midnight Special or off of European t.v. Sometimes the quality is not that great due to it being a copy of a copy but it's nice to be able to see and hear some bands from back in the day.

 

[ElectricWiz]

I would only point out here that the Grateful Dead, whom I dig, had a career standing policy of "go ahead and tape it," where concerts were concerned. They even developed this to the point of reserving a "tapers," section at shows. Because the permission was so readily given, people for the most part have respected it and not made any attempt to profit from it. Thanks to this open-minded thinking there are hundreds, probably thousands, of quality Grateful Dead shows available on the net for free....FREE!!!! And they support this too. Their only stipulation is that when and if they release a certain live recording (which they often do) it should be pulled from the Internet databases, which it always promptly is, the organized ones anyway.

Point being, the Grateful Dead has made millions either way. There are other bands who have similar policies. I think pirated records, i.e. official releases are a no-no. But the band profits from any given performance with ticket sales. Creative control is one thing, but who gives a shyte if someone records it? I realize some people will have different opinions on that. Only that bands aren't about to release every show they do officially, so why get upset? Some dedicated fans like to have multiple shows.

Other bands that I like that do this (that come to mind) are:
SIGUR ROS
The Black Crowes
...and soon the Mars Volta will do this too I think.

All have open taping polices. All make good money!

Just saying.....

And as an adendum, I should think that Symphony X, or whoever, who will probably never make it huge (no offense) should be happy that some of their good word is getting out simply through fan networks. As to profiting, I doubt sincerely that the bootleggers make too good a living selling stuff. I really do. I don't blame bands at all for not letting people tape stuff, that's fine. But I really don't think it hurts much either. The people who are die hard enough to want bootlegs are most definately going to buy pretty much everything the band puts out.

 

[wdiv]

It really makes NO sense for bands (or venues) to prohibit bootleg recording, unless:
1. They are planning to record it themselves a release an "official bootleg"
2. They know that they suck live and are don't want to embarass themselves

I used to be really into (audio) bootleg trading & traded for over 1000 shows. It helped introduce me to a bunch of new bands and make me a bigger fan of bands that I already like. This of course led me to go out and buy a bunch of cds that I may not have purchased otherwise. I think the bands should be encouraging people to tape and trade their shows, since it can really help to build up their fanbase & ultimately sell more records.

I've pretty much outgrown my bootleg phase, but I will search out a couple on occasion, if there's a band that I really want to hear live. I have picked up a few video boots over the years, but find that I never really watch them.

And by the way, nobody should ever have to buy a bootleg off of Ebay! Search around a little bit (db.etree.org, tapetrader.com, etc) and you'll probably find someone that will trade it to you for free.

 

[Fangface]

Bootlegs are ok when traded between fans IMO, ie for free.

Whereas bootleggers are making money out of other people's works and that's the reason why I don't buy bootlegs anymore. I'd rather buy more regular albums instead, and download bootlegs.