jem777az
Bozzman
God damn dude, if I was gay I'd demand that we run away forever.
I'm so sigging this.
God damn dude, if I was gay I'd demand that we run away forever.
The same kinda runs true for Line Of Fire. I know that 20 years ago we'd probably have gotten zero chance to do what we've been able to do in the last 10 years (2 good sounding full length albums). We're a decent band, but there are TONS of decent bands out there who are good enough to make a record.
Without what we have now (internet, home recording), 90% of bands with music available at this moment would not have music available period.
You used to have to hump the clubs for a year or have a rich uncle to save enough money for 8 hours at the local demo studio to get a shitty recording of a couple songs...then another year humping that and winding up with a closet full of leftover cassette demos. Now, bands can pool their funds (or hit up the rich uncle) to get a Mac and buy (or torrent) a copy of Pro-Tools and they're off and running! It's a completely different game.
I see my records on blogs and torrents all the time...I'm just glad people like it enough to share with other people. Me trying to fight global downloading is like trying to soak up the ocean in a napkin. I just try to stay positive and be gracious and thankful to those who purchase my records and even thankful to those who don't buy it but say "I liked your song on MySpace"...
Apologies.So what you're saying is that you don't memorize every word of my posts?
Much like you, I have an opinion on the subject... hence this back and forth. Do I believe I know the answer? Yes. Does that mean I've closed my mind to new evidence? Of course not, none of my opinions are dogmatic in nature. However, as I've said, and as I still contend, I believe piracy to be the number one reason for lost revenue. And to be fair, this back and forth we've been having, enjoyable as it may be, indicates that you've also reached a conclusion that my conclusion is false. Unless of course you like spending your days playing devil's advocate.This sounds almost like you've decided on a conclusion, and then will find (or ignore) facts required to support that conclusion.
I wouldn't argue that it's a negative. Nor would I argue that all the factors you've championed contribute to the overall issue.Good point, I do not know that. It's probably some of both. Given the scale of the number, I think it's safe to assume that at least some of the effect of "unbundling" is negative for the industry (people buying singles when they would have bought albums before), and some is probably positive (new revenue from people who wouldn't have bought at all). I assume that when balanced out, the net effect is negative because revenue has declined while unit sales have gone up.
On this we agree; the dead buy very few CDs. Even worse, recent data suggests zombies prefer digital music, what with their transient lifestyle.Another good point. My explanation for this one is that when people get old, they tend to die, and dead people stop buying music.
Agreed, entertainment budgets and discretionary dollars are definitely finite. Perhaps because people are spending more on video games, they're downloading more illegal music?I'm not saying that the relationship between music revenue and video game revenue is directly inverse, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say there is *some* relationship. Do you dispute the idea that household entertainment budgets generally have at least soft limits, and that an increase in dollars directed to one form results in a decrease in dollars to another form?
On this, I think we essentially agree. But it seems we disagree on what underlies the lack of profit we now see in the music world. While tastes in entertainment change, I find it difficult to believe that an entire generation has just decided music isn't all that entertaining.Yes, I'm saying it's certainly a possible contributor. And not that they don't like music anymore, but they they just like other forms of entertainment more. Really, while we've been selling pre-recorded music for profit for a century now, that's a mere blink-of-the-eye against the thousands of years that music has been a part of human culture. So it wouldn't be a shock to find that it was just a fad. Do you dispute the idea that tastes in entertainment can change?
A very eloquent straw man argument that was. I'm certainly not arguing that the most obvious answer is always the right one. However, to be fair, very often it is. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...No, it's the skeptic in me that recognizes the obvious answer is sometimes the incorrect one. It's obvious that the sun goes around the Earth, that ulcers are caused by stress, and that earthquakes are caused by angry gods. But luckily some smart people looked beyond the obvious, and now we can have man-made satellites tell us what the weather is going to be like, cure ulcers with an antibiotic, and build carefully near fault lines.
I'm not. Ultimately, all I'm saying is this:So if you're going to propose DRM as a solution to the music industry's decreasing revenue...
Does that mean I've closed my mind to new evidence? Of course not, none of my opinions are dogmatic in nature.
And to be fair, this back and forth we've been having, enjoyable as it may be, indicates that you've also reached a conclusion that my conclusion is false.
Unless of course you like spending your days playing devil's advocate.
While tastes in entertainment change, I find it difficult to believe that an entire generation has just decided music isn't all that entertaining.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one factor contributing to the decline in the recording industry?
God damn dude, if I was gay I'd demand that we run away forever.
Your points were indeed awesome, as always. Of all of them, I do believe the deconstruction of the album format, has had and will continue to have, a significant impact on the record industry.I thought it was kinda weird how I made such awesome posts throwing up a ton of alternate possibilities and that hadn't seemed to affect your position even one iota. I don't even want to see you change your position (because it may very well be correct), I just want you to be less sure about it!
As it often is, money is a good barometer. And I would be willing to bet money on piracy as enemy number one.No, I've reached a conclusion that you believe in your conclusion much more strongly than I believe in mine. In fact, the dearth of reliable information available and complexity of this topic means that I don't really have a conclusion at all that I would put any money on.
I couldn't agree more.Contrast this with global warming. If required to place two bets, first on the #1 cause of increasing global temperatures, and second on the #1 cause of decreasing music industry revenue, I would place almost all my money on the global warming bet. Not because global warming topic is simpler or more knowable than the music industry topic, but because global warming has been studied by many independent sources, each trying to be more right than the other, in a scientific process that leads us to the truth better than any other method we know.
Very well stated. If it's not already abundantly clear, I like the way you think.I do. Well, it's not even that I really enjoy it, but I think it's useful. If we all had good devil's advocates, we'd all be much better thinkers. It's easy to trust your own belief and fall into groupthink if you never hear a contrary point of view.
Did they suddenly find it more entertaining, or did something else cause this spike? Was this not the exact same period in time when CD players became affordable, and people were converting their collections en masse, as CDs and CD players represented a significant upgrade in fidelity from cassettes? I know this is the period during which I did my conversion, and repurchased all the titles I had previously owned on cassette. Might this one factor alone not explain the spike?This is the same generation that, decades after the telephone became an indispensable household appliance, decided talking on that phone isn't all that. But yeah, I'm not saying that's the sole cause either. However, this is why I keep harping on that graph. In that 80s/90s period, it almost seems like an entire generation *did* suddenly decide that music was really entertaining, and if it happened then, why couldn't the reverse happen now?
Might all the factors you mentioned, together, represent a bigger loss in revenue than piracy? They might. Do I think that any one of them alone is comparable to piracy? I don't.As you surely know by now, I don't have an answer for that. I figure all the factors I've mentioned in this thread (piracy, unbundling, redirection of entertainment dollars, macroeconomic conditions, etc.) each contribute 15% +/- 50% to the decline. With that kind of uncertainty divided between so many possible contributors, there simply is no obvious #1 culprit.
The problem is, it's already "free" and mostly in one place. From the perspective of someone who has no interest in paying for music, the only wrinkle this solution introduced is you now have to sit through a 60 second advertisement. The other problem you would have to contend with, is hosting a massive and growing catalog of music, and paying for the bandwidth to distribute it all. Keep in mind, with torrent sites, the costs of bandwidth and storage are passed on to the downloader.So...this helps with piracy (you can not make it go away but since this is also free and all in one place...
The problem is, it's already "free" and mostly in one place. From the perspective of someone who has no interest in paying for music, the only wrinkle this solution introduced is you now have to sit through a 60 second advertisement. The other problem you would have to contend with, is hosting a massive and growing catalog of music, and paying for the bandwidth to distribute it all. Keep in mind, with torrent sites, the costs of bandwidth and storage are passed on to the downloader.
Maybe it's the sites I use, but I've never downloaded a file that wasn't the quality is was reported to be, and I've never had a virus in a torrent. As I retag all my files anyway, to unsure that my iPod, my Droid and my Squeezebox will all read them properly, the sixty seconds I spent watching an advertisement, would still be more time consuming.However you also eliminate the risk of bad quality files, viruses, and incorrectly tagged music. Get a lot of benefit for not much work.
Maybe it's the sites I use, but I've never downloaded a file that wasn't the quality is was reported to be, and I've never had a virus in a torrent. As I retag all my files anyway, to unsure that my iPod, my Droid and my Squeezebox will all read them properly, the sixty seconds I spent watching an advertisement, would still be more time consuming.
I have put quite a bit of thought into this over the last few days and came up with a possible solution that addresses both concerns.
I don't doubt you (as I've never really had much problems) but we're likely in the minority when it comes to...sophistication
While tastes in entertainment change, I find it difficult to believe that an entire generation has just decided music isn't all that entertaining.
Copyrighting is a bogus concept anyhow.