building your standards... mixing advice

[joeymusicguy]

i think this is worth posting... from my pm box

Originally Posted by tdidluck
Hey Joey,

My name is Travis Didluck, I am an aspiring producer
and I would just like to say you are a huge inspiration to me. Your
work so far is astounding and I have no doubts that things will keep
getting better.

I just wanted to know if you could give me any
tips when it comes to mixing... I am an extreme perfectionist and I am
starting to lose sleep over this stuff lol. I am not trying to become a
copy or anything I just want to get my mixes to the point of clarity. I
find that after I am finished a mix and I bounce (yes, pro tools
unfortunatly) the mix always comes out sounding lifeless...the best way
I can explain it is lifeless or very unpolished. I have went to school
for recording and production, so I am not a complete rookie, so I know
what I am doing to a point. It's just I want nothing more then my mixes
to sound up to professional standards. I have no idea what I am doing
wrong anymore.

I am not sure if its the fact that I am hearing
an unmastered mix? I have never had the chance to A/B a mix to a master
before.. so its hard for me to tell what the problem really is..

It's not the gear thats causing the problem either, everything is being tracked through good pre's and convertors..

I can send you a mix and a screenshot of what I have going on in a session if you like...

I hope I am not being too much of a bother!
Any advice would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks,
Travis

My Response:
early on its important for you to develop what i call "your standards". it takes a long time to do and a lot goes into it. you have to know when something just isn't right, and over time you'll know how to react to it. you can do this by listening to a lot of recordings that impress you directly before and after hearing your own work. in other words, you need a way to instantly play work you like while you're doing your own work. you can usually use the "preview file" function in the import section of your daw. just go to import and "preview" songs (dont actually import them, they'll pass through your masterbus and sound different than they really are).

so just start working, then after a few minutes, listen to a recording that just totally blows yours away. over time, you'll get a knack for this naturally and won't need to do it anymore. but starting out, your brain needs a REALLY good understanding of what's right and wrong to you. at first, you probably listen to things on solo and think, this sounds just fine, but your missing that inner intuition in your ears that will tell you its far from there.

always go with your gut. and your gut will change as you develop.

 

[hurdy]

Holy Fuk dude this is some good advice, keep up the hard work man

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

so very very true

 

[dcb]

yeah, but you can import your reference, just route it to another output. also make sure not to use mp3s as a reference, always go buy the cd and use the high quality
version. make sure to set your reference to about -7 db ((use your ears for that)) (if your not mixing into your masteirng chain), so you will have equal levels. otherwise its impossible to
hear whats different in your mix.

building your standards truly is what people will pay you for in the end. so yeah working on this is a must.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

"always go with your gut. and your gut will change as you develop."

I love this. Great reminder that you will get better without trying if you always hold yourself to the highest possible standards for your ability.

 

[Josh Burgess]

Yup, good advice... reminds me of what Andy has said before about how a lot of people don't really know what they want to hear. You have to know what you want to hear and what kind of standards you're reaching for or you'll never get anywhere. Using good reference mixes that you know are of a high standard is a great way to judge your work in a more objective way... especially in the beginning when you're still learning exactly what it is you want to hear and how to get there...

 

[Sickan]

+1 to all of this.
I would add that you should listen to your mixes on different systems, like your iPod/in your car/whatever, where you know what things should sound like.

 

[fistula]

strange advice - its like - to mix you need to know how to mix)
its right for everything and everywhere

 

[Mesa4x12er]

While your advice is true it helps that guy 0. He can obviously hear the difference between his work and "pro" work. He doesn't have the knowledge to decipher what is different between them except that his "doesn't sound pro". At least you wrote back to him.

 

[crillemannen]

I did allot of A/B listening with my mixes against Pro mixes that i liked in the past. A great way to see if you got the punch and clarity of a Pro mix.

I think the hype about Joey (not taking away that his work is awesome) is that people belives there is within their grasp, because Joey uses POD and did use Slate samples, but what they dont understand is that it takes years to develop good mixing skills and most people don't get better then average in the end anyways.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Pretty cool of you to have answered his PM.

I get smashed with cubase questions outside this forum (on other forums and my youtube and through the wiki) and most of the time I have to ignore them due to lack of information/ give a fuck.

 

[exoslime]

great advice!!!!

 

[musickey]

True words Joey.

I had the chance to set in with Dave Otero, when he mixed my bands shit years ago. at the time i didnt know really anything about mixing, but i knew what sounded good. I watched Dave create a playlist using winamp, he loaded about 5 or 6 songs into it for his reference, and then would bounce back and forth from our project to the playlist. If only i knew then what i know now...I would have stolen all his presetz!

 

[guitarguru777]

Oh Joey stop tooting your own horn


















Kidding!!! Awsome advice man!

 

[reg3n]

thanks for that Joey, great advice!

 

[Joshua Wickman]

Funny the Pm starts out with "My name is Travis Didluck, I am an aspiring producer" Then jumps into his mixes. I think he is a little confused with the differences between what a producer and mixer actually do.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

I did allot of A/B listening with my mixes against Pro mixes that i liked in the past. A great way to see if you got the punch and clarity of a Pro mix.

I think the hype about Joey (not taking away that his work is awesome) is that people belives there is within their grasp, because Joey uses POD and did use Slate samples, but what they dont understand is that it takes years to develop good mixing skills and most people don't get better then average in the end anyways.

Bingo

You can have all the same gear as Joey, but unless you train your ears or have his presets (hahaha i kid) your not going to get great results.

 

[ahjteam]

Funny the Pm starts out with "My name is Travis Didluck, I am an aspiring producer" Then jumps into his mixes. I think he is a little confused with the differences between what a producer and mixer actually do.

Being a producer doesn't exclude that he might do the mixing also. Like being a guitarist doesn't mean that you can't sing, or play other instruments.

 

[nwright]

I'd consider myself in the same boat as the dude who PM'd Joey.

Joey's advice is sound, but it's kinda like a "water is wet" statement. I do the same things Joey recommends, but still have the same issues as the PM dude.

I can A/B until the cows come home and realize the shortcomings in my mix...I can relay that verbally, but knowing what knob to reach for or what frequency to adjust, or what fader to throw or what plugin will suit my desires is the big question. IMVHO it just all comes down to time and how much you do/can/have spend honing the craft.

That's why a forum like this is such a godsend, as it allows (for the most part) a free exchange of techniques and ideas that can hopefully answer questions or present ideas that may otherwise take a lot of time to suss out yourself.

The biggest thing I hear in pro mixes/masters vs. my own is the feel that every little element has it's own space, and that's it. CLA made a good analogy at the Waves clinic in that he said (and I paraphrase) "imagine a parking lot with a lot of spaces and each car fits in it's own space. You don't want cars crossing the parking lines, sitting sideways or too large to fit in one space"...My issue is I tend to straddle the parking lines, and/or have too large a "vehicle" to fit in one space. Knowing exactly what frequencies I need to cut/boost/shelf, etc. I think is my biggest stumbling block, simply because I don't always see the forest for the trees...I solo tweak way too much, haha.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

Being a producer doesn't exclude that he might do the mixing also. Like being a guitarist doesn't mean that you can't sing, or play other instruments.

Yea but if I said "Hi i'm so and so and I'm a aspiring guitar player. Can you help me with my piano playing?" That seems kind of stupid, I should have said "i'm an aspiring Piano player, can you help me with my piano playing". Playing Piano and Guitar are different even though i can play both. Just like producing and mixing, they are not the same.