Cheap 100W heads vs Expensive 100W heads

dmmi

dmmi

Member
Mar 23, 2010
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I've played through a 2x12 combo most of my guitar playing life.....I needed more power so I bought another 2x12 that I run in stereo from my Fx board. One of the 2x12's is 120W and the other is 100W. Strangely enough, the 100W is louder. Why? I don't care about the on-board drive or channel switching or Fx because I use my Fx board.

I think I still want more power, but I'm a little confused from lack of experience in the past....
- yes mesa's are sweet
- yes Peavey's are sweet

But I don't get how running 100W (or 120W) through 8 12" speakers (or even half stack for that matter) would give me more power.....but the general consensus is that it would.

So what is the difference in Power/Clarity between a cheaper 100W head and an expensive 100W head. If someone could also explain the same with cabinets it is greatly appreciated.

Just a note.....I don't use for recording, just the odd jam with an acoustic kit maybe once a month, so tone isn't super important.......but I'd like to stay away from salesman jargen and get the truth.

Thanks in advance!
 
well, some heads are just louder than others, mostly due to the voicing i guess (not too knowledgeable on the further tech details....). my 100w jcm800 marshall for example is probably the loudest amp i've ever owned, it completely slays e.g. the engl powerball. i wouldn't say it's a matter of cheap vs. expensive, though.

as for cabs, it's largely a matter of more speakers giving more sound pressure. a full stack for example will always sound way louder than just a single 412, just because of the fact that there's twice as many speakers pushing the air.
 
dmmi said:
so tone isn't super important.....

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

lol_wut_by_stfuah.jpg
 
Components.

Cheaper amps use cheaper components. These components are more liable to break, and are made from inferior materials. This doesn't mean that cheaper amps are more unreliable... not saying that. But there is certainly a reason why a Valveking costs approximately £300, and a Mesa Boogie Dual Rect costs nearer to £2000.
 
Volume is a funny thing, and you can't use watt's as a guide really. I used to have a 300w solid state carlsbro running through a 4x12" that had to be running full tilt to have any hope of being heard in a band situation, whereas my 275w marshall 2x12" destroyed it volume wise.

Speaker efficiency has more to do with volume than the wattage of the amp. Technically a 100w amp is only twice as loud as a 10w amp.

I still find it odd though that you're using two 100w+ 2x12"s and you still feel you need more power! The guitarist in my band used to play gigs with a 65w solid state crate 1x12" and never needed the volume past 4.

I think too much gain/too little mid's might possibly be the problem here??? Without mid's you are never going to cut through a drumkit.
 
Cloy.....I guess your trying to be funny......so I understand. But here is more detail:

I'm not a professional....I don't make money with this.....I just play to get my kicks......I only play with a drummer once and a while when we can schedule the wives to take the kids out...I don't have much money....at all (actually I've been recently robbed)....and most of all, I just want to hear myself clearly with an acoustic kit, once and a while. I don't care about amp settings....I use my Fx board. Lastly I'd love to have a dual mesa, or 6505 full stack...but can't afford, and can't use enough to justify cost. I'm sure there are plenty that can understand.

To all: Thanks for the responses.....
Questions:
- I have 4x12's running through 2 combo's and it's not loud enough. Would you attribute that to "some amps are just louder than others"?
- When I turn up the volume, I always turn down the gain to compensate the loudness effect You say mids might be the answer?
- Both my combo's can operate as heads.....so using the speaker efficiency advice could you recommend a cost effective 4x12 cab that might suit my needs? (say $500 CAD max)

Treviore....you make some good points!....I think what your finding odd regarding my need for more power might be attributed to my jam space setup. Drumkit is in the corner (i need to treat the corner walls yet to reduce reflections) because the drummer is literally in the corner, he can barely hear the definition in my playing just a wall of sound.....so I usually put 1 of the 2x12's pointing right at him, and the other one is on the other side of the room pointing at me to hear better. Because of this I think the sound pressure level mentioned earlier might not be functioning as should be and it may be close to only using one 2x12.......would you guys recommend stacking the 2x12's to experiment? That way all speakers will be pushing the air from the same starting point......if that makes sense.....it's just a theory...haha.

Oh ya.....I like it real loud too. Back in the day when I was young and stupid I never used earplugs.....well now I'm wise enough to value my senses more......but what I loose in "excitement" playing without earplugs....I gain in "feeling" with earplugs at higher volumes....if that makes sense...

Thanks guys!!!
 
ahjteam said:
Even MicroCube can be loud as fuck if you want it to be. I've never needed to go over halfway on the master volume with any amp. If you really need to go, you really need to do something to your stage volume. It's way too loud.
Click to expand...

Never played in a two guitarist band with a loud a fuck drummer, with a 30watt amp.... ???
 
cloy26 said:
My JCM900 SLX 100w head is incredibly quiet... I have to blast it to be heard over a drum set. I believe there is something wrong with it. :(

It was a joke, man. Sorry.
Click to expand...

No worries man....I did think it was funny.....

It just sucks when I'm looking for advise and close to the first thing people see when reading is an old rusty sink....after quoting what you did....Peace man...its all good!

Her's a joke for ya......I see your 5150 behind your picture...you BASTARD!
(envious...I am)
 
drew_drummer said:
Never played in a two guitarist band with a loud a fuck drummer, with a 30watt amp.... ???
Click to expand...

Speaking of loud as fuck drummer......mine hits like he's had a smile his whole life (he's 43) and Jam time is the only time he can get pissed off.
 
cloy26 said:
dmmi, I'm assuming these are solid state combos?
Click to expand...

Yes....you think that might be it?

- crate flexwave 2x12
- fender FM212R

I guess I should have listed that.....

Oh ya...both of which I only paid $150 CAD for....like I said...money is TIGHT!
 
I had a crate glx212 100w, and that thing was really loud.

I just know that a tube amp of equal power will always be louder than a solid state amp. Can some of the more learned techs weigh in on that?

Maybe it has something to do with the input chain? Like what kind of pedalboard setup do you have? Or maybe the amps aren't getting enough power? (doubt that is the problem, but I don't know much about amps)
 
That crate was 120W.....but I guess I've learned that doesn't matter.

My crate is 120W, the Fender is 100W....the fender is louder.....by far.
Crate at 9 = Fender at 6....but they are both pretty cheap amps
 
I think the cheap marshall MGs are pretty good if you just want something that you can abuze and not worry about. Theres no way I'd trust any shitty asshole support band round here with an expensive Mesa Recto or anything (as one of my old guitarists discovered to his cost after slagging off my choice of road amp :lol:). Shit just gets beat up on the road and I dont want to have to worry about vacuum tubes impliding if some idiot drops it the wrong way or whatever. If you have road crews or amp techs then thats great. But I dont. For live I want something I can throw down the stairs and still get the job done with and replace for next to nothing if it goes wrong.

Studio though, I'd spend as much money as I goddamned well had on me if I was after an amp specifically for recording. Mesa all the way. Best sounding amp I've tried yet IMHO. Although given the choice, I'd probably grab a Krank.
 
Obama Administration? I've never heard of them. Do they make amps or are they a retailer?
 
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