Check out a new song by my band Unthroned! :)

[enigma_nocurnus]

Originally posted by Kushantaiidan
Comparing this song to an empire torn, An empire torn seems a lot more melodic and the solos are kinda precision placed etc. But songs are a completely different style, and it shows your diverse talent.

Tortured seems a lot heavier, and more involved. A very pumping song. I find the introduction build up is excellent.

Thanx alot for the input Kush,
your perceptions are pretty much straight on the money which is pretty cool.

Tortured is a lot heavier, it's not really any more involved than "An Empire Torn", it's really another one of our only really simple songs.
But I thought your description of saying it's very Pumping is extremley accurate.

Tortured was designed to be bass heavy, and extremley grooving. Just trying to write a few memorable hooks and structure a lot of thick grooving riffs around them.

It's still melodic, but in a different way than "An Empire Torn" is melodic. It's more melodic in the last 3 Immortal albums sense of the word.

I feel that all the lead work Dave does for the band is pretty much precision placed. Then it just becomes a matter of he is constantly tweaking his leads and making them better over the course of the following months. Whether it's precision placed or not, he definately doesn't pull out a lead just for the sake of "I wanna do a lead now".

The clean vocal parts you speak of are actually parts where Lukes voice was starting to give up on him cause he'd been doing it for 5 hrs straight after basically no singing for 2 years.
But I know the part you're talking about, and in that part I think it's not a bad thing. For me, when his voice starts to break up a bit and a bit more of his clean voice comes through it adds a certain complimentary charactersitic to that particular section of the song. It makes it sound just that little bit more demented to my ears.

But really at the end of the day, the way the album is being planned out it's going to have to be listened to from start to finnish for all the songs to truly make sense.

There is definately a method to the madness, and it is my hope that when the album comes out people might like it straight away but, they might actually grow to love it over the course of a few months of reasonable listening time!

All along I've wanted to make an album for people to be able to discover, and not just know exactly how the rest of the album is going to be like from hearing the first song. I feel pretty confident that won't happen as the other songs are far more involved than these 2, but at the same time I think we've worked hard enough at them to make them blend with one another. I feel strongly that each song has it's own unique characteristic and texture.

I would much rather people, after listening to the album for 3 or 4 months reasonably frequently listen to it one day and say "fuck, I get it now", rather than be into it straight away and loose interest after a few mere listens.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out.

 

[enigma_nocurnus]

Oh yeah Kush, if Prometheus is your favourite album then I commend your musical tastes.
I always say I think it's gonna take a pretty special album to top Prometheus for me.

 

[YaYo]

Thanks for the input from everyone.. I dont think i need to say much because trent seems to have taken care of that But there was the following:

Originally posted by Pierogi
where can i go to get all ur songs?

Originally posted by Aborted Fetus
Also, when do we get to hear the other demo songs?

This is the only song uploaded currently, I will talk to the guys about finally setting up an mp3.com site now that we have some basically complete demos, on that we will post this song and maybe the newer version of An Empire Torn, but we'll have to see..

 

[Opet]

I'll download it. TOMORROW.

Kush, were'd you get that picture?!

 

[enigma_nocurnus]

Originally posted by Prozactrooper
I'm going to have to wait till I get home which isn't going to be very nice because I don't get home for the next 5 hours.
Should be good though. I'll have to take up the offer to see you guys practice as soon as possible and experience it

Yes you should you Bro0tal m0fo!

 

[Iblys]

Production sounds very good, the drums don't sound programmed at all. Riffs are well constructed, the bass work for the most part kinda sits back though, i don't think there was too much intricate basswork. But that's typical for this style of metal. I don't like the vocals at all but that's taste. Keyboards are back in the mix which is how i like them.

 

[Prozactrooper]

Originally posted by enigma_nocurnus
Yes you should you Bro0tal m0fo!

I tried to get it just then with this super quick tafe connection but I'll have to wait till I get home or the weekend.
*Rubs palms together*

 

[YaYo]

Thanks for the comments Iblys, appreciate it. But you didnt say whether you actually liked/disliked the song overall?

Originally posted by Iblys
the bass work for the most part kinda sits back though, i don't think there was too much intricate basswork.

Theres quite a bit going on with the bass, quite a few runs and such. You should be able to at least hear that the bass is playing a harmony or similar in quite a few of the riffs.. we take a fair amount of time with it, rarely does the bass just follow the root notes of the guitar chords. Maybe its not evident in the production, or maybe this song isnt the best display for such things.

 

[Prozactrooper]

I'll get to see it all live so I'll get to get the full experience
i can't wait to have a look

 

[enigma_nocurnus]

Originally posted by Iblys
Production sounds very good, the drums don't sound programmed at all. Riffs are well constructed, the bass work for the most part kinda sits back though, i don't think there was too much intricate basswork. But that's typical for this style of metal. I don't like the vocals at all but that's taste. Keyboards are back in the mix which is how i like them.

Thanx for the comments.
Perhaps you could give the song a couple more listens. I'm not sure if bass is something you yourself can easily pick up in a mix or not, or maybe the stereo you listened to the song on is not the strongest for reproducing bass frequencies accurately.
But the bass is actually very very present in the mix, and is my favourite part of the demo production. The bass and the drums sound like a solid production to me, where as the guitar tone lets the thickness of all the rest down a little bit. But you can't expect much from direct recording the guitars onto a $40 card, and we never did.

But like Dave said, there's quite a bit going on with the bass.
The Bass in Unthroned is a seperate entity unto it self.
It never does the standard "bass playing the root of the rythym" thing.

Liam(our bass player) is probably my most valued asset in the band, equal with Dave's creative presence with his guitar parts.

Liam just continually seems to keep writing these juicy bass lines that have quite a bit of harmonising going on, and a lot of the time seem to go on their own seperate little journey's.
And not just straight harmonies of what the guitars are playing either.
He normally will pick one guitar to harmonise, then actually change the phrasing of the melody for him to play a little.
By doing this between the 2 guitars and the bass, no one is ever doubling anyone else.
There will be very very small instances where Dave and myself might be doubling each other in a part. But these are normally parts that are more rythmic and driving than technical, and full of textures.

There's a bit of guitars doubling up in this song, but like I've mentioned before. It's because it's one of our more simpler songs that was designed to concentrate more on rythym and groove rather than technicality and tons of subtle textures.

That being said, although it was a more simplistic formula than a lot of other Unthroned stuff, the same amount of thought went into blending all the progressions between the 2 guitars and bass till it met our desires.

So I guess all I ask is, even if you can't stand the song. Give it a few listens and try and shut your ears off from the guitars, and vocals and concentrate on how the bass is working with the drums.
Try to hear only the bass in the song.

Charles did an awesome job of getting the bass and drums to sound so huge in such a short space of time, and the bass is my absoloute favourite thing about how the song sounds recorded in that version at the moment.

I think Liam is really shining as bass player, and at being able to write interesting bass lines. Especially considering he wasn't a bass player untill he joined Unthroned.
I couldn't dream of having someone better suited to playing bass in the band, and his presence in the band to me, is paramount!

Even when we are at our most brutal, Liam seems to have this uncanny knack of being able to make us groove, with thick, warm, and interesting bass progressions that are ever present.

Anyway, that's my bit on how the bass works in Unthroned.

Thanx for the other comments, I agree with what you said about the level of the keys in the mix, and their limmited use.
Charles did a great job I thought of making the choirs do exactly what I always intended for them to do..... and that's simply add ambience and make the stereo image seem wider and thicker.

It's all just a big learning curve really, but it's getting there slowly I think.

Oh, and also you mentioned something about being typical for this style of metal.
Be aware that this song is only a small representation of all the facits we cover in this band. And is definately one of our most simple songs. But we felt it important with this song and "An Empire Torn" to have at least 2 very simple songs, simple in the rythmic sense of the word so as to help ground all the other songs a bit as there is a lot more going on musically and conceptually with all the others.

Anyway, cheers again. Trent.

 

[Aborted Fetus]

Bass = the best instrument.

I guess I'm a little biased, but still, it's true.

 

[YaYo]

Originally posted by enigma_nocurnus
Thanx for the comments.
Perhaps you could give the song a couple more listens. I'm not sure if bass is something you yourself can easily pick up in a mix or not, or maybe the stereo you listened to the song on is not the strongest for reproducing bass frequencies accurately.
But the bass is actually very very present in the mix, and is my favourite part of the demo production. The bass and the drums sound like a solid production to me, where as the guitar tone lets the thickness of all the rest down a little bit. But you can't expect much from direct recording the guitars onto a $40 card, and we never did.

But like Dave said, there's quite a bit going on with the bass.
The Bass in Unthroned is a seperate entity unto it self.
It never does the standard "bass playing the root of the rythym" thing.

Liam(our bass player) is probably my most valued asset in the band, equal with Dave's creative presence with his guitar parts.

Liam just continually seems to keep writing these juicy bass lines that have quite a bit of harmonising going on, and a lot of the time seem to go on their own seperate little journey's.
And not just straight harmonies of what the guitars are playing either.
He normally will pick one guitar to harmonise, then actually change the phrasing of the melody for him to play a little.
By doing this between the 2 guitars and the bass, no one is ever doubling anyone else.
There will be very very small instances where Dave and myself might be doubling each other in a part. But these are normally parts that are more rythmic and driving than technical, and full of textures.

There's a bit of guitars doubling up in this song, but like I've mentioned before. It's because it's one of our more simpler songs that was designed to concentrate more on rythym and groove rather than technicality and tons of subtle textures.

That being said, although it was a more simplistic formula than a lot of other Unthroned stuff, the same amount of thought went into blending all the progressions between the 2 guitars and bass till it met our desires.

So I guess all I ask is, even if you can't stand the song. Give it a few listens and try and shut your ears off from the guitars, and vocals and concentrate on how the bass is working with the drums.
Try to hear only the bass in the song.

Charles did an awesome job of getting the bass and drums to sound so huge in such a short space of time, and the bass is my absoloute favourite thing about how the song sounds recorded in that version at the moment.

I think Liam is really shining as bass player, and at being able to write interesting bass lines. Especially considering he wasn't a bass player untill he joined Unthroned.
I couldn't dream of having someone better suited to playing bass in the band, and his presence in the band to me, is paramount!

Even when we are at our most brutal, Liam seems to have this uncanny knack of being able to make us groove, with thick, warm, and interesting bass progressions that are ever present.

Anyway, that's my bit on how the bass works in Unthroned.

Thanx for the other comments, I agree with what you said about the level of the keys in the mix, and their limmited use.
Charles did a great job I thought of making the choirs do exactly what I always intended for them to do..... and that's simply add ambience and make the stereo image seem wider and thicker.

It's all just a big learning curve really, but it's getting there slowly I think.

Oh, and also you mentioned something about being typical for this style of metal.
Be aware that this song is only a small representation of all the facits we cover in this band. And is definately one of our most simple songs. But we felt it important with this song and "An Empire Torn" to have at least 2 very simple songs, simple in the rythmic sense of the word so as to help ground all the other songs a bit as there is a lot more going on musically and conceptually with all the others.

Anyway, cheers again. Trent.

A single statement does not require an essay response...

 

[enigma_nocurnus]

Originally posted by YaYo
A single statement does not require an essay response...

I actually adressed his whole reply apart from talking about how the vocals were done as I've already done that.
And I didn't speak about the drums because you've already done that.

What else do you expect me to do when it's quiet at work?

 

[Opet]

< criticism >

Can the singer do clean vocals well? I realize that might be out of the question, but it may sound better. The death vocals are OK, but... At first they sounds good, a bit In Flamesy. Then it gets a little worse. The lower growls, like at 1:38, aren't as good as the higher ones IMO.

Secondly, the guitars are great. They don't sound muddy or too simple. The riffs seem hard to do (but what do I know) and there seems to be a good variety of ideas. There's something I heard a few times that sounded weird. It sounded like a girl scream for a second. (at 1:59 and 2:09) Weird = Good for me.

Thirdly, the bass is pretty sweet. Not overly done (like some would say Morningrise is), but heard throughout. I like that. It's not slow and boring...something I feel too often about bassist. I like it when a song surprises you and everything stops for a second and the bass has like a 5 second solo. For instance, the bit at 5:40 could have been done like that......or not!

And Finally, the drums are programmed? I happened to see mention of that by mistake. I wouldn't haven guessed. Some pretty cool ideas there also. I can't say I know what it takes to program drums compared to actually playing them. There are several parts I really like and only a few scarce ideas I don't care for. The majority of it, I really liked.



Overall, if you want a 1-10, I'd give it a 7 to be honest. The eerie beginning at 0:54 is cool, when the heavier guitar comes in, but the wind noises sound sort of bad. When the vox start, it's good, but after a while they loose something. They sound too strained perhaps.

I know that's not what you hoped to hear. There are so many really good parts I didn't focus on. I figure you need to hear these things first. If I didn't mention it, then let's just say, to me it was very well done and I wouldn't change it.

</ criticism >

BTW, is the song supposed to be 7:00 minutes long? Mine stops there...abruptly. I didn't read much of what was written already, so I don’t know if you were going for a Serenity Painted Death idea. I tried to keep my opinions as unbiased as possible by not reading the other statements.

 

[YaYo]

BTW, is the song supposed to be 7:00 minutes long? Mine stops there...abruptly. I didn't read much of what was written already, so I don?t know if you were going for a Serenity Painted Death idea. I tried to keep my opinions as unbiased as possible by not reading the other statements.

Thanks for the reply opet, The song is actually longer than that. The version i have uploaded on my webspace is over 10MB, and i think its closer to 9 minutes long. If yours isnt that big then obviously it hasn't downloaded correctly.

We will be talking with the vocalist to get him to focus on the areas where he is best. I believe trent mightve mentioned earlier that there was a lot of experimentation with vocals with this batch of demos, a chance for us to decide what we really wanted from them. A large portion of them we just got Luke drunk and got him to sing randomly and then kept the best bits . Clean vocals are unfortunately not a possibility at this stage, though i agree they would be effective. The vocals at 1:38 are also negatively effected by what seems to be a lack of compression, which makes them sound too loud and uneven.

And that 'girl screaming' is just trent doing a weird artificial harmonic i believe

 

[Iblys]

Hrm, listened again.... In the second half of the song the bass seems to pick up a lot, like i noticed more harmonies after the first two minutes. When the guitar is doing tight rythm like riffs the bass does some cool stuff, guess i just needed to listen a few more times. Still most impressed with the drums, if you could give me any tips on how to program drums to sound that real i'd be very grateful.

Um, did I like the song overall.... I was impressed, but this is not really my style of music. Not so much a fan of the vocal style either. But hey man, this is just taste, I think you guys are good at what you do.

 

[Nugent Goes AOL]

Bravo, guys. I enjoy the song. This is the first song posted by a forum band/artist that I actually thought was more than just decent!

It will be even better with live drums and time in a pro studio...I hope you guys get a chance to do that in the near future, because I would love to hear it.

And Enigma...dude...just because someone doesn't like certain aspects of your song doesn't mean you need to argue with them to make them believe that it's good. The song was posted on this forum for opinions, so opinions are what you'll get. If you can't handle negative feedback/constructive criticism, then don't bother replying.

 

[enigma_nocurnus]

And Enigma...dude...just because someone doesn't like certain aspects of your song doesn't mean you need to argue with them to make them believe that it's good. The song was posted on this forum for opinions, so opinions are what you'll get. If you can't handle negative feedback/constructive criticism, then don't bother replying.


what are you refering to in particular?? Is it what I said about how the bass is done or something??

I don't think anything of what anyone has said is negative at all, and it's been interesting to see what people's take on the song is.
I mean, you can't force someone to like your work!

With vocals I was merely talking a little bit about how they were done, and that they are very much incomplete. It's basically like Dave said, we just got him drunk and had some fun.

And with bass I was responding to a comment made by Iblys about how he thought the bass sits back in the mix. I just wanted to point out that the bass is actually pretty thought out, and we thought that it was pretty present in the mix...... which is why I asked if maybe he could listen to it again and see if he could hear that second time around.
And I actually thought it was pretty cool of him to listen to it again and concentrate on the bass, and notice the point in the song where the bass starts working harder, and it was cool to hear that he picked up on it a lot more the second time round.

I don't feel that criticism of any kind is negative at all, unless it becomes blatant verbal attacking...... which no ones replys to this thread have been at all.

So I'm sorry if you thought I took offense to anything anyone said, but I haven't at all.
Perhaps it's because I come off sounding to serious when I'm talking about how the band works. I guess it's because I don't really get a chance to discuss it at length with anyone so I probably end up explaining too much.

Still, it's my philosophy that it's better to explain too much about something you care about, than not explain enough.

 

[Nugent Goes AOL]

No man, I wasn't offended in the least. I just got the impression from reading your comments that you weren't cool with the fact that some people thought your song could be improved in some ways. But it's cool, I understand...I would most likely react the same way if I put a song of my own up here.

Once again, good tune. Keep 'em coming.

I hope to get some of my own band's material up here within the next few months...but I don't want to jump the gun and post something that I'm not happy with.

 

[enigma_nocurnus]

Hrm, listened again.... In the second half of the song the bass seems to pick up a lot, like i noticed more harmonies after the first two minutes. When the guitar is doing tight rythm like riffs the bass does some cool stuff, guess i just needed to listen a few more times. Still most impressed with the drums, if you could give me any tips on how to program drums to sound that real i'd be very grateful.

Um, did I like the song overall.... I was impressed, but this is not really my style of music. Not so much a fan of the vocal style either. But hey man, this is just taste, I think you guys are good at what you do.

Thanx for listening again man.
That's pretty much how it works, the bass is pretty minimal untill the song takes off after the first couple of minutes. I really appreciate that you listened again and was able to hear it.

As for programming drums, there's no easy way to make a machine sound like a human. And I still think there a plenty of weak points in our drum sound. But it's definately our best programmed sound yet.
But the drums sound better this time around cause the samples are better. We took the samples Ben uses from his trigger unit and used them.
The rest is basically thanx to another member of the band named charles knowing his shit with e.q and mixing.

Hmmm, what else. Well each part of the drum kit is on it's own seperate track and that makes it easier to get the drums to sound big cause you can mix certain parts of the kit at different levels which helps to give a more human feel. And also it allows you to isolate certain parts that need specific e.q, which is far easier than trying to mix and e.q a whole collective drum kit.

Thanx again.