Chemical Wedding question
- Thread starter Winmar
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phlogiston
Bejabbers!
I really hadn't thought about it, but I see it as present tense, as in "now we're both going to lay down in this ruddy big hole here".
I'll listen again today to be sure.
I'll listen again today to be sure.
Chemical Wedding if you *only* listen to it is VERY hard to work out (spent freakin hours on it). Basically the album is his interpretation and respect acknowledgement of William Blake's poetry and artwork. Blake was a way out there guy who questioned everything. I think he lived in the 1800's ???
Here's what it means.. when a person dies, they (their bodies) return to the earth and are blended together with other dead people. Most people who have partners end up being buried together (same grave one on top of the other) - so they blend together (William BLAKE wrote about this in his poetry).
"A Chemical Wedding day" is the day you both die, or meet in the grave, i.e. one dead already - whatever.
" And so we lay, we lay in the same grave, a chemical wedding day... " - bizarre stuff huh..!
What he is trying to say is that even though you might marry or live with someone for years you never really are a part of each other - in the complete sense (shit this is hard to explain). I think HE (Bruce) has had LOTS of bad relationships (go listen to the lyrics on Skunkworks for some serious relationship guilt stuff) and I think he understood what Blake was on about, i.e. people who you trust can hurt you because you never really know anyone - well that's my spin on it.
"We lay in the same grave" when we die and become as one - Chemical Wedding is all about the journey of life to death, the bit at the very end goes on about how someone is walking into eternity (has died, going to heaven etc). I also think BLAKE was a true religous person who questioned human interpretation of religion and a lot of the songs on C.W. Gates, Jerusalem, Jericho etc I think are all about the miss-interpretation of the good intent of religion - I'm not sure on that, just an opinion. BLAKE challenged ALL authority figures and was quite a rebel for his time. Bruce probably respects him and his view point on life.
Anybody worked out the song Jerusalem ? I THINK I have but it's pretty deep IMO.
Here's what it means.. when a person dies, they (their bodies) return to the earth and are blended together with other dead people. Most people who have partners end up being buried together (same grave one on top of the other) - so they blend together (William BLAKE wrote about this in his poetry).
"A Chemical Wedding day" is the day you both die, or meet in the grave, i.e. one dead already - whatever.
" And so we lay, we lay in the same grave, a chemical wedding day... " - bizarre stuff huh..!
What he is trying to say is that even though you might marry or live with someone for years you never really are a part of each other - in the complete sense (shit this is hard to explain). I think HE (Bruce) has had LOTS of bad relationships (go listen to the lyrics on Skunkworks for some serious relationship guilt stuff) and I think he understood what Blake was on about, i.e. people who you trust can hurt you because you never really know anyone - well that's my spin on it.
"We lay in the same grave" when we die and become as one - Chemical Wedding is all about the journey of life to death, the bit at the very end goes on about how someone is walking into eternity (has died, going to heaven etc). I also think BLAKE was a true religous person who questioned human interpretation of religion and a lot of the songs on C.W. Gates, Jerusalem, Jericho etc I think are all about the miss-interpretation of the good intent of religion - I'm not sure on that, just an opinion. BLAKE challenged ALL authority figures and was quite a rebel for his time. Bruce probably respects him and his view point on life.
Anybody worked out the song Jerusalem ? I THINK I have but it's pretty deep IMO.
phlogiston
Bejabbers!
*Says Phloggy putting on his history cap*
OK, the whole point of Jerusalem is Blake's spiritual leanings. He was not into the whole "God and Jesus, good/evil thing". He was of the opinion that human nature was in it's essence "pure". BUT, the more one experienced, the more one moved away from proper human nature so the more tainted one got. Thus the only true "pure" people were children, and as you got older, and hence more experienced, you got more tainted.
This also leads to the name of his "god" - Urizen. It was a play on the words "your reason".
He was also really pissed off at England at the time. He wasn't getting the respect he thought he deserved.
So he used the Jerusalem thing as a metaphor for when the world was young. The lines "Was Jerusalem built here/on England's green and pleasant lands" does not read that way in the original poem (its less complimentary to England, I'll look it up when I get home). It means was England ever any good.
And the whole "Let it rain" thing is him asking to be purged of his experience so he can become pure again.
"Bowl of burning gold" = greed
"Arrows of desire" = desire
"Scales on my eyes" = the way of seeing the world through his experience.
So basically the song's about making the world a better place again.
What did you have Jason?
OK, the whole point of Jerusalem is Blake's spiritual leanings. He was not into the whole "God and Jesus, good/evil thing". He was of the opinion that human nature was in it's essence "pure". BUT, the more one experienced, the more one moved away from proper human nature so the more tainted one got. Thus the only true "pure" people were children, and as you got older, and hence more experienced, you got more tainted.
This also leads to the name of his "god" - Urizen. It was a play on the words "your reason".
He was also really pissed off at England at the time. He wasn't getting the respect he thought he deserved.
So he used the Jerusalem thing as a metaphor for when the world was young. The lines "Was Jerusalem built here/on England's green and pleasant lands" does not read that way in the original poem (its less complimentary to England, I'll look it up when I get home). It means was England ever any good.
And the whole "Let it rain" thing is him asking to be purged of his experience so he can become pure again.
"Bowl of burning gold" = greed
"Arrows of desire" = desire
"Scales on my eyes" = the way of seeing the world through his experience.
So basically the song's about making the world a better place again.
What did you have Jason?
Yeah well I did think the same sort of thing but from a different angle.. I thought he was saying Religion is tainted by human interpretation and the whole greed, sex - corruption of the soul thing. I thought Jerusalem was like a spiritual state of happiness and welbeing and I had no idea why England was referenced, I still dont get that. New Land / New Earth.. yeah if you say so.. I guess the imagine that comes to mind of England's rolling lands is of beauty and pure innocence - virginal perfection ?
I use to think Blake was hanging shit on England for being zealots or intellectually inferior or ignorant of sin? I took it a little too literally. To me a lot of the Blake stuff looks like he was really pissed at people a lot and described his thoughts and feelings with a lot of sarcasm? (sound familiar phloggy
As a guess he would have been a very unhappy person? any thoughts.
There's really no missing washing the sins away... make me see clearly again - absolution. I thought the song was going a bit deeper and maybe saying how mankind has missed the whole point of sins and we have justified / moralised it all and now we have lost our way..
I dont disagree with what you are saying I still believe "Jerusalem" is a sarcastic comment about the misinterpretation of religion and its purpose in life and how sad that is. But I could and probably am wrong...
I didn't know the Urizen - god think.. interesting.
I use to think Blake was hanging shit on England for being zealots or intellectually inferior or ignorant of sin? I took it a little too literally. To me a lot of the Blake stuff looks like he was really pissed at people a lot and described his thoughts and feelings with a lot of sarcasm? (sound familiar phloggy
As a guess he would have been a very unhappy person? any thoughts.There's really no missing washing the sins away... make me see clearly again - absolution. I thought the song was going a bit deeper and maybe saying how mankind has missed the whole point of sins and we have justified / moralised it all and now we have lost our way..
I dont disagree with what you are saying I still believe "Jerusalem" is a sarcastic comment about the misinterpretation of religion and its purpose in life and how sad that is. But I could and probably am wrong...
I didn't know the Urizen - god think.. interesting.
Ill never listen to chemical wedding the same again after those descriptions! (Which were very interesting might i add!! But i always thought urizen was the embodiment of all evil though???)
phlogiston
Bejabbers!
Spawn: yeah, you're right. Blake though experience = lack of purity. Experience means that you reason more, rather than acting through instinct. Therefore Urizen = Your reason = lack of purity. (Blake didn't seem to think in terms of good and evil, he thought in terms of innocence and experience).
Actually he did say that too, earlier. But he wrote Jerusalem later than that. Bruce probably took a mixute of both views.
Kinda what I meant. Young = good. And Bruce changed the lyric. Blake's reference to England is more along the lines of "this fuckin shit hole". He lived in a crowded, built up, industrial area, and because of ill health, didn't get out much.
He generally did. He had very little money throughout his life, and very little of that was made from his art. He was an engraver by trade, and that's how he made the little money he had. He did come by a rich patron later in his life, but they had a falling out when Blake didn't do what he was asked. It's generally accepted he was miserable.
And I don't get pissed at people. Sometimes.
But what I really want to know is:
Is Machine Men really about Maiden? (my guess is yes)
Actually he did say that too, earlier. But he wrote Jerusalem later than that. Bruce probably took a mixute of both views.
Kinda what I meant. Young = good. And Bruce changed the lyric. Blake's reference to England is more along the lines of "this fuckin shit hole". He lived in a crowded, built up, industrial area, and because of ill health, didn't get out much.
He generally did. He had very little money throughout his life, and very little of that was made from his art. He was an engraver by trade, and that's how he made the little money he had. He did come by a rich patron later in his life, but they had a falling out when Blake didn't do what he was asked. It's generally accepted he was miserable.
And I don't get pissed at people. Sometimes.
But what I really want to know is:
Is Machine Men really about Maiden? (my guess is yes)
Wrathchild
Miserable Bastard
I only wish I had this album so I could contribute to the discussion .
Wrathy hangs his head in shame... again!
W
.Wrathy hangs his head in shame... again!
W
I always took the meaning to be that religion is wrong but sprituality is right, but that might be me just reading into it what i want to see (cause i agree with that!)
When he said "how happy is the human soul, not enslaved by dull control" I thought that even though thats kind of a question and not a statement, i always took it to mean that it was about believing in what YOU think is right as opposed to what a church/religion/moralist says is right.
Im not saying that the church or whatever is wrong, just that its not the answer for everyone, but some people seem to (mistakenly or not) believe its the only way.
Erm, basically i think the song chemical wedding is about being yourself and being happy with that, kinda.......
I dont know if what im writing makes much sense as im trying to put it into words and i dont think its really working
William Blakes paintings kick ass too
Wrathy: Dont worry, you know that great feeling you get when you put on an album and you get to that moment where it hits you that the album is just AWESOME? Its never the same feeling when you play it after that, even when the album is a classic, so you are going to get that when you hear it! Or is it just me that that happens for?
When he said "how happy is the human soul, not enslaved by dull control" I thought that even though thats kind of a question and not a statement, i always took it to mean that it was about believing in what YOU think is right as opposed to what a church/religion/moralist says is right.
Im not saying that the church or whatever is wrong, just that its not the answer for everyone, but some people seem to (mistakenly or not) believe its the only way.
Erm, basically i think the song chemical wedding is about being yourself and being happy with that, kinda.......
I dont know if what im writing makes much sense as im trying to put it into words and i dont think its really working
William Blakes paintings kick ass too
Wrathy: Dont worry, you know that great feeling you get when you put on an album and you get to that moment where it hits you that the album is just AWESOME? Its never the same feeling when you play it after that, even when the album is a classic, so you are going to get that when you hear it! Or is it just me that that happens for?
Blitzkrieg
Master Exploder
Originally posted by Gavin
Go and get the album right now!!!!!
you can't afford to live another day without it!!!!!
And if you don't have Accident of Birth get that to!!!!
What he said.
Bucko
Member
I've only just recently got this album and I don't actully think much of it. I did understand it did have something to do with the works of William Blake etc but it does'nt do anyting for me . Maybe I will have to give it a few more listens , I did however get Dream Theaters "Once In a Livetime" at the same time so maybe i was just blown away by that.
Just my 2 bobs worth.
Just my 2 bobs worth.
Kem
Very cynical
Canibals of Rust (severely outdated / out of touch...?)... interesting.. I had no idea with this one. Quite ironic if it's true (it does have that familiar ring of truth about it - u might be right mate).
It'd be like hanging shit on yourself... lol.
what would be the point in bringing all that up again... everyone knows what Bruce thinks of Maiden.
It'd be like hanging shit on yourself... lol.
what would be the point in bringing all that up again... everyone knows what Bruce thinks of Maiden.
Bucko
Member
I dont mean to sound like a prude but why do you think Bruce & various other artists make songs like Killing Floor for example, i.e. those with demonic / satanic references?
I just listened to CW again and noticed how I automatically skip Killing floor, not because it's a bad song (it rocks) I just dont like the intent / content, I'm not comfortable with it.
If CW didnt have this song it would be a lot more presentable and acceptable, i.e. christian groups etc (BTW I am not a religous person). Do you think its there to piss these people off, or is there a real dark side to Bruce?
My guess is it appeals to a minority audience and helps to sell albums.. pretty lame if that's it.
I just listened to CW again and noticed how I automatically skip Killing floor, not because it's a bad song (it rocks) I just dont like the intent / content, I'm not comfortable with it.
If CW didnt have this song it would be a lot more presentable and acceptable, i.e. christian groups etc (BTW I am not a religous person). Do you think its there to piss these people off, or is there a real dark side to Bruce?
My guess is it appeals to a minority audience and helps to sell albums.. pretty lame if that's it.
Actually, i agree with you there los4, and to be honest, i cant work out why seeing as ill listen to slayer albums all the way through and they are much worse "intent" wise than Bruce, though i dont really take slayer seriously at all, they are more like watching one of those stupid horror films rather than serious musicians (if you see what i mean, slayer rule and everything still and im not saying they arent fantastic players etc. am I making any sense?)
Anyway, I always thought the lyrics to that song were out of place on an album where everything else has double meanings/different interpretations and stuff.
Anyway, I always thought the lyrics to that song were out of place on an album where everything else has double meanings/different interpretations and stuff.
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