Cold? Lifeless?

[theblackmoon]

Hey guys,

I recorded a bit of a new acoustic stuff I´doing, I like the tonal balance, presence and definition, but it just doesn´t excites me when I listen to it. When I play it I like it, quite emotive, but listening to it feels so cold and lifeless...

Am I being clear?

What can I do to add excitement to a recording?

S.C. = At4040 -> 002

Some EQ and comp. and verb of course.

Here´s the link so you guys can judge.

Thanks.

 

[JeffTD]

I know a bit of what you mean... it seems like it lacks dynamics, right?

Have you tried double tracking it, and panning hard left/right?

 

[theblackmoon]

Well... I don´t think is dynamics... maybe, but I compressed just a bit, more like gain riding...
About doubling the only problem is that I didn´t want to record to a metronome, to add some tempo variations, to add a human feel to it, but I still feel it is sooooo sterile...
I want to keep it simple, minimal, one guitar, one take. I would use more mics but I just don´t have it.

Thanks Jeff

 

[stringy_]

Acoustic guitars are a bitch. The first time I sat down to record an acoustic I thought it was going to be a total piece of cake. Man, was I wrong. The room you're recording in plays a HUGE role in the sound of the recording. I didn't have a good room to record in so I stuffed myself into a closet with enough junk in it to hopefully break up the sound...I was trying to find an acoustically dead room.

If you want warm Opethy type acoustics, double tracking really helps. He also plays Martin guitars, which have a very pronounced low end.

 

[theblackmoon]

Yes! Opeth type... that "warmth", does anyone think I need a tube mic or pre? Not that I´m going to buy one anyway...

or...

better Fx? I remenber mixing a timbale once using those Alesis Wedge... it was "just" a timbale but sounded so beatifull...

 

[~BURNY~]

Could work with the right reverb and some very subtle eq.
Also it sounds picked. Is it? If so have considered playing it with fingers?

 

[theblackmoon]

Could work with the right reverb and some very subtle eq.
Also it sounds picked. Is it? If so have considered playing it with fingers?

Yes it is picked, I tried with fingers but it sounded dull... don´t know what to do...

EQ is just two dips in the lom-mid area... taking small bits with cirurgical Q, made it way clearer... Verb... is D-verb. I have no other.

Does anyone have any starting point to a chorus preset for acoustic guitar?

I just wish I could watch Eddie Kramer using FX!

 

[stringy_]

Yes! Opeth type... that "warmth", does anyone think I need a tube mic or pre? Not that I´m going to buy one anyway...

or...

better Fx? I remenber mixing a timbale once using those Alesis Wedge... it was "just" a timbale but sounded so beatifull...

Three things are going to get you that warmth: (starting with the most important)

1) Proper guitar

I cannot emphasize this enough. If you have a very midrangey, bright, twangy guitar, you will not get warmth. You will get cut. These are the types of guitars that I would use with a full band mix. The strumming will cut right through.

You really want to try as many guitars as possible and find one that fits perfectly. Find one that will put some body and warmth in arpeggios and such. MARTINS!!!

2) Proper mic placement

Everybody is way different on this. A popular single mic technique is to have either an LDC or SDC and point it where the neck joins the body, slightly aiming towards the sound hole. A popular dual mic technique is to hang a mic directly over your strumming shoulder along with the mic pointing where the neck joins the body. Remember, the closer the mic is to the soundhole, the "warmer" you will get, but it will also get very boomy. This is the toughest part for me, finding a good mic placement.

I should also add that your room plays a big role. If you're going for warmth, stay away from rooms that have a ton of reflections. If you want a good reverby, twangy, poppy sound, then you're going to want to find a room with a good acoustic character...but that's not what we're going for here.

3) Proper equalization

If you mic'ed the guitar right, then you can actually put a VERY slight low shelf to add a bit of body...but be very careful as there is going to be a ton of dynamics in this region and it'll get boomy very quickly. You could also use a multiband to keep the lows under control while boosting them slightly.

I'd also drop a low pass on to the guitar too. Get rid of that clicky pick noise...that shit annoys the hell out of me. Also, remember subtractive EQing. Drain some highs and your lows will poke out more without even boosting them.

 

[theblackmoon]

Hey Stringy thanks a LOT!
I´ll try diferent placement.... but it is very hard when you play/record, takes way more time than with a AE and a musician.
I wish I had the budget to get a Martin, my guitar is a cheap corean one, but believe me, for it´s price it is GOLD!

About the picking noise I used a very soft pick, I´ll try changing for a harder one.

But all this regards the tone... and I think that with your advice I´ll improve that, but I don´t think it will sound "emotive" you know?

My girlfriend showed me a band called Iris, there´s a music called Imposter in their "Wrath" cd - in the begining till 45 sec or so there´s a clean guitar, doesn´t sound so good to me but, man that is EMOTION!

Am I loosing it? Is that feeling in the MUSIC or in my HEAD?

 

[stringy_]

Hey Stringy thanks a LOT!
I´ll try diferent placement.... but it is very hard when you play/record, takes way more time than with a AE and a musician.
I wish I had the budget to get a Martin, my guitar is a cheap corean one, but believe me, for it´s price it is GOLD!

About the picking noise I used a very soft pick, I´ll try changing for a harder one.

But all this regards the tone... and I think that with your advice I´ll improve that, but I don´t think it will sound "emotive" you know?

My girlfriend showed me a band called Iris, there´s a music called Imposter in their "Wrath" cd - in the begining till 45 sec or so there´s a clean guitar, doesn´t sound so good to me but, man that is EMOTION!

Am I loosing it? Is that feeling in the MUSIC or in my HEAD?

Emotion is a hard thing to capture when recording.

Recording quality has an affect on emotion, but not near as much as the player himself/herself.

Conveying different emotions when you're playing guitar isn't something that can be taught, you just have to get a feel for it yourself. I can guarantee you that the emotion you're feeling when you're listening to music is IN the music itself and not just your head. The finest guitar players on the planet are very good at conveying just about any feeling through their playing.

 

[AStacy2]

I've ran into the same problems with acoustic guitars, they are hard to record. I would say put a pretty decent high pass in them for sure, it helps clean them up a lot.


Also, has Andy ever mixed a song that is just maybe acoustics/drums/bass/vox? I was trying to think of one but couldn't off the top of my head. It'd be nice to A/B some stuff to ge in the right area.

 

[stringy_]

I've ran into the same problems with acoustic guitars, they are hard to record. I would say put a pretty decent high pass in them for sure, it helps clean them up a lot.


Also, has Andy ever mixed a song that is just maybe acoustics/drums/bass/vox? I was trying to think of one but couldn't off the top of my head. It'd be nice to A/B some stuff to ge in the right area.

The discography on Andy's site says he mixed both Deliverence and the live Lamentations DVD from Opeth. There are plenty of acoustics on those with a full band.

I really don't like the acoustic on the Lamentations DVD, it's acoustic/electric if I remember right and I have never, ever liked direct acoustic tones. That's no fault of Andy's though....since A/E guitars are a lot more convenient in a live situation, especially with Opeth since he changes guitars so often.

 

[AStacy2]

Really? I didn't think there were any straight acoustic songs on Deliverance, maybe I'm wrong I'll re-check. It kind of sucks to A/B a song with your acoustic stuff that blasts into some Opethy death metal every so often, hehe. I don't like the A/E too much either...