computer recording

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razoredge

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Jul 22, 2007
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yea...so Im like... "what the fuck is going on in this town ?"

Finally all set up to start recording scratch (idea) tracks so my drummer can fimiliarize with the change ups of some of these new riffs. Tempo remains but the feel changes, and sometimes the time sig... I guess... its fucked up when you dont know what your doing... lol.

SO I have a M-Audio "black box", hooked up to Sonar 6 and I am prolly the most computer DUMB person on the face of the earth. Finally made some head way tonight but I had to go without the metonome. This particular song has an intro build up thing thats 100 BPM, then when the riff starts its about 120. At this point I dont know how to make the metronome change with me if it even can.

Not happy with the tone, might have to try using a mic for the amps instead. Not happy with the mix levels, I guess I need to learn more, somethings going on there I need to change because I have no control over the input level, it seems to be taking it at a uncontroled line level. Distorted is HOT and my clean picking parts are weak.... must be some setting thats not set up correctly.

So much to learn

and I just wanna play guitar........ lol
 
No body has any tips for me :erk: ?

Or other computer recording nightmare stories ?

I guess its not that hard now that Im figureing it out but Im only on the basics. I cant believe all the things this program apparently does, its just that its all Greek to me.
 
Here we go.

1. I use Cubase SX3 (4 is balls) and it has a dynamic tempo feature. I assume Sonar does as well, but I wouldn't know how to point it out to you since I haven't used Sonar since version 3. I might try looking in the midi editor or project settings. Maybe there's a tempo track you can insert.

2. Line levels. You might have the plug in the wrong jack. There's a microphone jack, and a line jack, on some sound cards. Some cheapies just have a mic jack. One of them has a lot higher dB input than the other. You want the other one, most likely. It may not work unless you fiddle with the input settings in Sonar and in Windows. Worst case scenario is turn your guitar down some, or turn down the amp or whatever there is between the guitar and the computer (The Black Box). A clipped input signal won't be fixed by turning down the volume in Sonar. Basically it's like a set of dominoes: Anything that fucks with your signal will continue to do so all the way to the output, so try to pinpoint problem spots and neutralize them.

Can help more if you need.

PS: Oh, it's like videogames. Save often.
 
Its prolly a setting (I need to find) thats not allowing the output level of "the black box" to control the input into the computer. The sliders dont do anything either during record. So I must have some setting screwed up. It was working that way the night my buddy set me up and got me going, but no more.

The metronome, I dont know, wouldnt be surprised if theres a setting I can edit. I still dont think it will do me much good though. I myself have to be able to switch from one tempo to the other, its imeadiate. I did change the nome tempo first time but 120 clicking over top of the 100bpm intro was total khaos and screwed up the count in... If you can follow me... I needed 4 beats at 100 then start riff at 120 but it was all out of sync and I started at the wrong time. I can feel it and play it fine by myself but I need the click to make sure I stay at tempo and dont speed up.

I should be learning on an easier song but the drummer needs this demo, then I must have the vocal track on it as well because the vocals trigger the riff and mood changes and once the vocals are heard it all makes sense. Just one of those things..... lol

My biggest problem is Im slow to understand the help topics due to my lack of computer knowledge and dialog in the first place. I'll get it in time, already catching on a bit.

What do you mean "save often"? Everytime I did a retake, I deleted it, twas no good anyhow. Its not like a jam or improve. I know how and what I have to play in this case and either I nail it or I dont. When I get around to screwing improv or just playing around I will save most all of that. I wish I could remember half the riffs & grooves I come up with just messing around. But so many times they are gone in an instant
 
1. The output of the Black Box should be the input level to the computer. You can adjust the output on the Box or the input on the computer, and both should do the same thing. Better to adjust it on the Box though.

2. There has to be a metronome editor. In Cubase, I can make a "Tempo Track" and set a starting tempo, and flag it 4 meaures later to instantly change to a new tempo (and time sig if I want!)

3. Save often cause these programs crash pretty easily if you overload them, which, unless you have a massive studio desktop, will probably happen eventually. Not really talking about saving take #35 of 564, but rather saving the volume, panning, routing, tracks and tempo, all the settings that you work so hard to get just right. Audio takes, lucky flukes aside, are always replaceable.

I'll look up the tempo thing for Sonar and maybe I can post some pictures for a tutorial.

I haven't watched this, but this might be helpful. Could be the reverse though, a sync tempo to audio type thing. Can't use sound right now.
http://www.gearwire.com/cakewalk-sonar6-tempo-map-creation.html

Can't find the Sonar 6 PDF so if you have that, hit me up on AIM/MSN/Yahoo/Email and I'll see if I can find the tempo editor.
 
Thanks man, Ill have time tonight to look for that tempo map.

As for the input levels, this is what Im talking about, I can actually turn the input and output levels of the black box all the way down so I cant even hear them on the headphones anymore and I still have optimum signal at the track level. Im not cliping it though, its optimum with distortion for riffs. But my clean channels are a bit weak about 70% I forget the db reading but its low -__db, Box hooks directly through USB port via cable. Good chance I need to do some programing in the box as well. Just using presets at this time and volumn levels do vary as its set up right now.

I just need to be patient and learn about this stuff. I was never much on the technical end.
 
Hey, I actually use Sonar myself, and I feel the same way.
I just want to play and record, but there are so many settings that needs to be understood first. Lately, after my last HD formatting, I´ve been taking a break from recording, due to lack of spare time, but I hope to be able to pick it up again soon.
I think I got the hang of some routins anyway -

To change metronome settings:
Options / Project / Metronome

To change original tempo click on the button just right to the very small window, which usually says 120.00. Then you can change settings.

I gotta run, regretly. Hopefully I can help you more with Sonar later on.

Peace / Fredrik
 
Medieval harp sounds good Fred, damn thing is I cant figure out what Im listening to. Real harp or processed keyboard or maybe even nylon guitar ?

Im OK now with regular metronome settings but still have not pursued metronome mapping and I honestly dont like the thing clicking away anyhow so I havent used it much, I do fine without it, but will need it in the end to make sure I dont surge. I've just been putting down most of my blues and jazzy rythmns and working on improv, something I never really had the opportunity to do before.... and it shows... Ha! Most important thing is Im having more fun with it now rather than being frustrated trying to figure out the intricacies. One thing I can do with the "Black Box" is use the drum programs so that gives "jaming" a better feel. I still prefer getting together with the boys and making noise, so then I can "just play guitar" Theres no big push to get what we want recorded done, its all for fun now, we're older, havent played much in over 10 years, and a key member done went MIA on us. So, just happy working on getting tight and some of our chops and endurance back. Its a fair amount of material we need to relearn and rehash so we are not stressin about it and pleased with our progress givin the time restraints.
 
razoredge said:
Medieval harp sounds good Fred, damn thing is I cant figure out what Im listening to. Real harp or processed keyboard or maybe even nylon guitar ?
Click to expand...

Thanks alot, razoredge! Well, it´s my trusty velocity-sensitive, but non-weighted M-Audio Radium 49 MIDI keyboard with a software synth Celtic harp sound. Not the very best harp sound there is, but still ok, I guess.

Since it´s performed live, and without much of the notes prepared in advance, I relied a bit too much on sustain pedal, which made it sound blurry and not like the real harp instrument at some points. I agree with that, but a good thing that you pointed that out, really. Highly appriciated feedback!
 
I wasnt refering to how it sounded but rather my lack of knowledge of what I was listening too. Sounded good to me, I just couldnt tell. I've only heard a harp a handful of times and theirs amazing things that can be done with processing equipment these days. Wish I could have a real harp
 
This day and age as much as it can be annoying to have a metronome clicking away or spending the time first to map out a whole mess of tempo and time sig changes, I think it is almost always best to learn to deal with it and make your tempo map. The reason being, it provides you with SO much more versatility later on. Being able to incorporate MIDI directly into a session against your audio tracks is probably the main benefit. The ability to integrate easily with other programs and sequencers is another. Plus you can write the MIDI rather than perform all of it, and quantize as needed if you do. Since you don't want your song to sound stiff, it is worth going through and creating a detailed tempo map, and really planning out any desired speed changes (of course you pretty much HAVE to get all the time sigs in there). If you are working on a prog/power metal piece, the genre almost invariably cries out for a solid click based tightness (all those dramatic stops and starts and time sig changes are far more pronounced when set to a click to be balls on accurate).
 
I totally agree with all of that. Very good points.
At least I´m not tight enough to add multiple instruments with enough accuracy for this style of music, without clicks. (sometimes not even with it)
It´s very different from playing romantic solo - pieces, where the freedom of tempo is much higher.
 
Fredrik Park said:
It´s very different from playing romantic solo - pieces, where the freedom of tempo is much higher.
Click to expand...

If were talking about the same thing, I like to use this in a few pieces, it has a ?.... "airy feel", slowing down a bit and leaving a room for breath, whatever, its adds a feel content that just seems to belong. Primarily on some intro stuff as I ease into a progression.

Not sure I'll ever use midi on this other music, it's primarily guitar drivin and thats what Im going for. Then much of it I just would never have the ability or patients... or feel the need to map it out in measures. I have riffs that are 1 measure 4/4 followed by a 6/? back and forth, back and forth, I just couldnt be bothered, it feels like... I feel it. BUT I can do these with just a steady non accented clic so it doesnt matter, to map them measure for measure I wouldnt ever do anything with it and it would take me months to make sense of it. I do understand where its beneficial to do this but might not be necessary for what Im going for.

So far I think I only need tempo maping for maybe two areas and the rest can be done with steady equal click, so that will be less of a leap for this DMF.

Thanks everyone for all the input..... :) I hear ya.... just cant count
 
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