Contracts or cash?

[Ermz]

I'm wondering whether some of you who have worked on larger, more commercial recording projects tend to charge artists an up-front cash fee, or do you actually go through the hassle of writing up a contract?

If you actually do bother with the contract, what are some of the standard things that you stipulate? Do you ever attempt to own any part of the sound recording, or get royalties for its sales or airplay (in the case of an indie band)?

 

[smy1]

I'm wondering whether some of you who have worked on larger, more commercial recording projects tend to charge artists an up-front cash fee, or do you actually go through the hassle of writing up a contract?

If you actually do bother with the contract, what are some of the standard things that you stipulate? Do you ever attempt to own any part of the sound recording, or get royalties for its sales or airplay (in the case of an indie band)?

It really depends what you want. I usually get half the money up front and then the full payment before I deliver masters. If I think the band is really good, I might be interested in getting percentages. I also negotiate beforehand how my involvement in the recording will be. If I only record and mix, I don't get any credits/rights, but if I produce and or co-write I will surely negotiate a percentage of all earnings in addition to the general fee (applicable only to bands with recording deals, of course).

 

[greyskull]

change a word, get a third

 

[A Toolish Circle]

^ i would defintely write up a contract if the amount of money involved was more than $1000 and esp if it was for a long term projects

It should include what terms u and the band deem as fit for the project ( money / payment / work schedules ) and most important an out clause : for both you and the band IN CASE something nasty happens or a clash of conflicts and you or the band want out of the project

It's best to have it in writing than things going real sour when something goes wrong and everyone argues over what should be done when it could already have been agreed in writing

happened to me before when a band wanted to do their album with me and i budgeted 1 month of time for them , they were poor players and took too long and i already had bands booked in the next 2 months so couldn't do them and i had to leave the country after that.They claimed that i said that it meant that i charged them $x amount of money to finish the project in one month or if not i would have to give them extra time ... blah blah

in the end i ended up being owed $2k as the band refused to pay the remaining amount owed for that month of recording

simple matter that could have been solved by a written contract

Upfront fees : if the band is booked in for a week ( $1200 in my case for my fees ) i ask for 1/2 of it upfront and the rest at the end of the week. but it's up to u


In terms of royalties etc etc : simple stuff like Final mixes will not be released until full payment is made are the usuals

U can only demand royalties or what they call points if u're a shit hot producer charging a lot of money and the band or u wants to cut a deal that u do them for slightly cheaper in return for points

 

[RootBoundApollo]

^ i would defintely write up a contract if the amount of money involved was more than $1000 and esp if it was for a long term projects

It should include what terms u and the band deem as fit for the project ( money / payment / work schedules ) and most important an out clause : for both you and the band IN CASE something nasty happens or a clash of conflicts and you or the band want out of the project

It's best to have it in writing than things going real sour when something goes wrong and everyone argues over what should be done when it could already have been agreed in writing

happened to me before when a band wanted to do their album with me and i budgeted 1 month of time for them , they were poor players and took too long and i already had bands booked in the next 2 months so couldn't do them and i had to leave the country after that.They claimed that i said that it meant that i charged them $x amount of money to finish the project in one month or if not i would have to give them extra time ... blah blah

in the end i ended up being owed $2k as the band refused to pay the remaining amount owed for that month of recording

simple matter that could have been solved by a written contract

Upfront fees : if the band is booked in for a week ( $1200 in my case for my fees ) i ask for 1/2 of it upfront and the rest at the end of the week. but it's up to u


In terms of royalties etc etc : simple stuff like Final mixes will not be released until full payment is made are the usuals

U can only demand royalties or what they call points if u're a shit hot producer charging a lot of money and the band or u wants to cut a deal that u do them for slightly cheaper in return for points

that's a really shitty story, I can't stand hearing about engineers getting fucked over. So you never got the 2K for the time they were ALREADY IN THE STUDIO?!? ridiculous.

 

[smy1]

U can only demand royalties or what they call points if u're a shit hot producer charging a lot of money and the band or u wants to cut a deal that u do them for slightly cheaper in return for points

That's not true. Many bands and indie labels will gladly give you points for a reduced fee.

 

[A Toolish Circle]

^

cool , i'll have to start honing my negotiating skills


RootBoundApollo : Yep , i'm still owed 2k from the band for the time they already spent. It'll never happen again, i've learnt my lesson the hard way adn will always write up a contract and do out-clauses.

Thankfully my landlords run a rehearsal and touring company , the band has been blacklisted....everyone has been warned about them and no one will give them anymore gigs

 

[everybody's x]

voxengo beep goes on my 2 buss for any mix until I get paid in full
its a free plug check it out

 

[sparkyness]

I think a 1 page "standard terms and conditions" document would do the trick. Just get both parties to sign it and ensure it sets out the services being provided, the applicable charges, the timescales, and how and when payment is due.

I'd also include some terms regarding use of (or breakage of) studio equipment when a band (or entourage) member is at fault.

Get the basics down to protect yourself (and the band) legally, but don't go overboard until you're dealing with signed acts. Throwing down a 10 page contract may scare away business while you're trying to establish yourself.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Always, always, always get your money before you give things out. Every time I've tried to be the nice guy, I've got fucked. Lesson learned many years ago.

Contracts aren't a bad idea, but they don't have to be a novel, either. Just spell it out clearly.

-0z-

 

[Matt Crooks]

Always, always, always get your money before you give things out.

No truer words can be spoken.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

When working with labels or bands worth of faith, you can make exceptions when the schedule is very tight and deadline is too close though.

 

[pharrell]

The producer behind The Killers debut worked soley on a 3 points cut and recently got a cheque for $2.5million. So I suppose if you get the right gig its worth it.
The amount people like Sneap and Richardson charge is peanuts compared to what the more commercial producers get.

Horses for courses tho innit

 

[Torniojaws]

What are the "points" I keep seeing when talking about producing albums? I guess it's somehow related to what you are paid, similar to royalties, but for producing?

 

[smy1]

The producer behind The Killers debut worked soley on a 3 points cut and recently got a cheque for $2.5million. So I suppose if you get the right gig its worth it.
The amount people like Sneap and Richardson charge is peanuts compared to what the more commercial producers get.

Horses for courses tho innit

Sorry if I doubt these figures. That would mean that there has been approx. 75 million US$ of income from the record, which would translate into 10-12 million records sold. I highly doubt that.

 

[pharrell]

A slice of the pie

 

[smy1]

What are the "points" I keep seeing when talking about producing albums? I guess it's somehow related to what you are paid, similar to royalties, but for producing?

Points = percentage. 1 point = 1 percent.

It's usually a percentage of the cleaned up retail price. I am not familiar with the english terms. But it's usually the price the retailer pays the label. If a CD costs 15.99 in the shop, it usually is 11.99 or 10.99 or something like that. But after cleaning it up some record companies deduct EVERYTHING from that, you end up with 6-7 bucks per cd.

 

[pharrell]

I was told by the CEO (Martin) of Lizard King records a few days ago. You don't know if this was linked into 'synch' exploitation aswell. I'm sure Jeff Saltzmans management and legal people got him a good deal

 

[Torniojaws]

Ah

 

[pharrell]

it dosen't actually work as straight forward as that