Contracts or cash?

[theblackmoon]

It´s not like the label will wright you check smiling and thank you for your great job. I´ve seen contracts where the producer would only receive a piece of the pie after 10K has been moved. A good band today is so lucky if it moves 5K.

I don´t believe in Santa nor label promises...

 

[theblackmoon]

Points = percentage. 1 point = 1 percent.

It's usually a percentage of the cleaned up retail price. I am not familiar with the english terms. But it's usually the price the retailer pays the label. If a CD costs 15.99 in the shop, it usually is 11.99 or 10.99 or something like that. But after cleaning it up some record companies deduct EVERYTHING from that, you end up with 6-7 bucks per cd.

6-7 bucks is actually a lot. I think most producers get way less.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Andy makes 20$ out of each sold CD with his name on it.

 

[MX582]

6-7 bucks? whaaaa thats ALOT for just one cd

 

[JBroll]

... Perhaps that's talking about the money you'd be getting a portion of after things like shipping and retailing costs have been taken care of? That's always what I hear going on, we know how much retailers and record executives love rolling around in the lifeblood of people who actually work to make their living.

Six dollars on a twelve dollar album seems like it would not fucking happen.

Jeff

 

[Brooks]

6-7 bucks? whaaaa thats ALOT for just one cd

Thats about how much Metallica makes for each CD sold.

If I'm not mistaken, Metallica has what some call the best contract in the industry.

 

[JBroll]

Now all they need is a CD worth buying.

Jeff

 

[Ermz]

Producer points are taken from the artist's royalty rate. So if the artist's cut is 15% (which is a damn good rate), a producer asking 3 points will get 3% of that. That's a very diluted figure when it comes down to it.

Thanks for all your replies so far guys.

I'm wondering whether any of you have electronic templates which you may be willing to share? I'd just like a starting point for all the basics, and I'm no legal jargon expert.

 

[Ermz]

The producer behind The Killers debut worked soley on a 3 points cut and recently got a cheque for $2.5million. So I suppose if you get the right gig its worth it.
The amount people like Sneap and Richardson charge is peanuts compared to what the more commercial producers get.

Horses for courses tho innit

I find that pretty hard to believe. Their album would've had to have moved some serious units in order for him to get that much. Since points are taken from the artist's cut of mechanical sales, I'd expect the killers to be billionaires from that?

 

[Ermz]

One last thing (sorry for the multiple posts).

Those of you who charge half up-front, does that restrict you to a flat fee for a project? If so, do you stipulate a finite amount of hours that you will work on a project before closing it off? Or do you find a way to get a song/daily/hourly rate in if the project exceeds a specified timeframe?

 

[pharrell]

Your missing my synch point here guys.

Synch can generate more income for a label/band than record sales. Which in the current climate is very common. So if Jeff had his points linked into ALL income from the master then this figure is believeable.

 

[nwright]

I don't think there is any band OR producer making 6-7 bucks per CD, aside form the huge established acts mentioned in this thread. The ONLY producers I could see getting that much per CD would be hip hop or pop producers, who are sometimes as well known as the artist themselves (Jermain Dupri, P Diddy, etc.).

I don't believe the 6-7 bucks per CD for any producer, TBH.

 

[sparkyness]

In my experience of dealing with labels (I was signed at 17, then again at 25), Moonlapse's take is the most realistic. The rule of thumb for the standard deal that bands get is a ratio of 10:1 of retail price paid to band mechanical royalties. Publishing is different again.

Slightly OT: but there's a great article written by Steve Albini a few years ago that clearly outlines the accounting involved in any newly signed band. However, anyone considering a career in music should read it.....http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html

Always remember, all costs associated with making an album are recoupable by royalties due to the band before they get a dime. Management, Producers, Labels, etc get their cut first.....and management often "double dip" by getting both a percentage of the advance and of the royalties themselves.

 

[metalkingdom]

The original question posed was for those with commercial experience.

The way business is handled for producers vs. engineers can be quite different. Most engineers (or their managers) will make arrangements with the artist's label after monetary details have been agreed upon between the engineer and the artist. Then the engineer will send invoices to the label after a P.O. (purchase order) has been issued by the label. The label is supposed to pay by what is called NET 30. That means that they have 30days from when the invoice is processed to send a check, but don't hold your breath. Typically, it takes around 90 days to actually see the money.

No matter who you are, you will eventually get ripped off at least once.

No producer will work on a major release for points only. Points, schmoints. It's pretty rare for anyone to get paid anything substantial based off of points. Only really successful records can get you there. As Sparky touched on before, there's a whole lotta overhead to be made up for most records before any dough off points is distributed. The gravy train comes when you have produced a song for a movie soundtrack, and some other song becomes a huge hit and you end up getting major cash from the huge sales.

 

[smy1]

I don't think there is any band OR producer making 6-7 bucks per CD, aside form the huge established acts mentioned in this thread. The ONLY producers I could see getting that much per CD would be hip hop or pop producers, who are sometimes as well known as the artist themselves (Jermain Dupri, P Diddy, etc.).

I don't believe the 6-7 bucks per CD for any producer, TBH.

That's true! I gotta clear that up! What I meant was that the 6-7 bucks is what the record company rakes in. Then, if your contract entitles you to 10% of off that, then you get 60-70 cents. I mainly produce indie electro bands and I my points are always deducted from the 6-7 bucks. There is NEVER a set way to do things and due to the fact that those bands really don't sell much, everything else would be no interesting deal for me. So since the labels prefer to pay fewer money up front, they'd rather give me a better percentage later on. Most of the time it's just a few Euros ...

 

[Glenn Fricker]

One book I'm going through right now that's a huge help with the business end of things is "Confessions of a Record Producer" by Moses Avalon. It pretty much lays out how the entire business works.
LINK HERE

I highly recommend this to anyone even remotely interested in the business end of things.

-0z-

 

[A Toolish Circle]

One last thing (sorry for the multiple posts).

Those of you who charge half up-front, does that restrict you to a flat fee for a project? If so, do you stipulate a finite amount of hours that you will work on a project before closing it off? Or do you find a way to get a song/daily/hourly rate in if the project exceeds a specified timeframe?

No , if the band books a week , it's X amount of money ( hours x $Y per hour)
so i ask for half of that upfront , if it needs to exceed the week booking , i will renegotiate the price again

be careful about just charging one flat fee straight without a specified timeframe.Bands will try to take advantage of this and take their own sweet time in the studio as i've learnt


always make sure u have an out or way of negotiating stuff when something doens't go right

 

[Glenn Fricker]

be careful about just charging one flat fee straight without a specified timeframe.Bands will try to take advantage of this and take their own sweet time in the studio as i've learnt

Listen to this man! He speaks the truth!

 

[iekobrid]

Colin: The last point on my list is this, er... this "cosmic clause" thing. "Rights to exploitation on any planet now, or yet to be, known to man."

Rachel: Yeah.

Colin: Well, what does that mean?

Rachel: Oh, that's just a little bit of nonsense. I mean, all it means is, when we land on Mars and find lots of little Martians there who, let's face it, are bound to be into Bad News, we can sell your records to them.

Den: Far out!

Colin: Oh. (Laughs.) Okay, okay. Right, so to sum up the main points again... The contract lasts five years, but you don't have to put out any records if you don't want to, although if you don't want to, we're still under contract to you, and we're not allowed to make any records for anybody else. And we get four and three-quarter percent of ninety percent of a hundred, minus fifteen percent of retail, but there's no advance, which means absolutely no cash whatsoever for us upfront.

Rachel: Yeah, that's about right, yeah.

Colin: Mm. (Inhales thoughtfully, sticks his pen in his mouth, thinks for a second, looks at Rachel, smiles and nods.) Well, alright, I'll sign that.

 

[theblackmoon]

Andy makes 20$ out of each sold CD with his name on it.

How much a cd costs in there ????? Usually the producer gets from the first sale on the line, you know, label->distributors->store->you . If you´re right and not joking that means that the cd should cost more than 30 dollars in there.