Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
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Cruelest people in history?
- Thread starter mutantllama
- Start date
Blind Guardian
Member
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
metal_wrath
I dip my forefinger...
Not sure why you speak of Europe as one entity and also the Western world as one entity. Btw, are you European or American?
I don't think you can credit Europe or the western world with the creation of retroviral medications. While Africa is very behind in Medical advancements this was true of Europe until only recently. Basically if you got a disease you died more often than not. Also it was not in Europe that the first major advancements in Medicine/Science were made but in the "Middle East" who influenced the Greeks etc... Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
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American.
I'm speaking of the Western world and Europe as one entity because that's how others in this thread have been doing.
The first major advancements in medicine and science may have been thousands of years ago in Greece or what not but the major advancements in the treatment of AIDS are from American and European doctors and scientists. It was the French who first identified the virus, it was Americans and Europeans who first started developing AZT and then HAART, etc. So his claim that we've done nothing to stop the spread of AIDS in Africa is silly. Honestly we can't even stop the spread of AIDS in our own countries so how does he expect us to be more effective in stopping the spread of AIDS in the entire continent of Africa? Nevertheless we have done much to help and treat those in Africa with the disease.
The Heartbreak Kid
Afterimage
Holy shit! An argument ended on UM!
Wait, not quite.
We traded guns for slaves. Trading them guns gave them power over other tribes and placed value on slaves, giving them reason to invade other tribes in order to take slaves and gain land and power.
I'm not saying that we bear all the moral responsibility for this. No one does. The people who did this are dead. Let's not go pointing fingers.
Actually, the border division were created by Europeans with no regard for history or ethnicity, which has caused a lot of strife. Same situation with the Kurds in Iraq. This is (in large part) why that horrible shit is happening.
There are a lot of doctors there. Several thousand. Sadly, there are far more Africans with AIDS. I'm willing to admit that I overstated the case with regards to AIDS. However, the Western response to the AIDS epidemic in Africa has been insufficient.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I saw Jared Diamond speak at my school. It was pretty cool, but he spoke mostly about his newer book, Collapse.
I say we all read Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, report back here in a week and discuss the flaws of imperialism in Africa (and the world, for that matter).
I am being sarcastic; but seriously, it's a great book: "We live, as we dream-alone."
Ender Rises
Wass sappening?
That book was really really dry and boring. It probably didn't help that I had to read it for English class, and I hate being forced to read anything. I'd probably like it if it wasn't forced on me (no rape jokes please)
Einherjar86
Active Member
I actually believe that Heart of Darkness isn't so much racist as just not really concerned with the characters of the natives. Conrad refers to them in very inhuman terms because they're not primary characters. I know there was some critic (I can't recall his name) who wrote vehemently that Heart of Darkness was a racist book. He has since toned down his criticism and admitted that it isn't as bad as he once said. I believe it has less to do with racism and more to do with importance. I mean, one could even argue that Marlow would not think very importantly of the natives, so why should Conrad go to great lengths to write about them?
I think the book is more sexist than racist; but then again, you still have late Victorian sentimentalities roaming through most people's minds.
Einherjar86
Active Member
True, but Conrad even has Marlow say that England was once also a "dark land," like Africa is now. He equates modern Africa with England in the time of the Romans, when England was a tribal land. In this way Conrad creates a cycle, and calls the English heritage barbaric. Of course then comes the question of whether or not imperialism is a proper manner in which to civilize a nation, or whether civilization should be tried at all, or if they're already civilized... all such arguments.
But by referring to the native tribes in such a way Conrad exposes the truth about the history of England itself, and also displays a kind of irony in the modern mindset of the imperialistic Englishman. There are many other factors playing into a reading of this book. This is only one of several themes and techniques that Conrad uses.
Hypnos
steck ihn nei!
my vote goes to Tomas de Torquemada.
his inquisitional police makes the Gestapo look like sissies
his inquisitional police makes the Gestapo look like sissies
Hypnos
steck ihn nei!
he and his people used a lot of nasty things. he put a whole new level of terror on Spain. he made men betray their wives, children betray their parents and vice versa, purely because of fear of the Inquisition. i've read a book about Torquemada, Cisneros and all the inquisitional machine in middleage Spain. it was really terrifying
Ender Rises
Wass sappening?
Ender Rises
Wass sappening?
Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
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ok cool... the Western response to AIDS has been insufficient in our own countries as well. Check out Shilt's "And the Band Played On" for how badly our government and the medical companies botched the AIDS epidemic.
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