Cub/endo - Tempo map question

[Executioner213]

I literally lost sleep over this last night...

I need to figure out the best way to do this. I did a project recently where I did all of the songs in one file (as opposed to individual files for each song). Tempos were set for everything, but realized after the fact that they were off in some spots. When you change a tempo, it shifts the tempo map ahead/behind to compensate for the time...and if you didn't plan ahead for this (which I didn't), it throws your whole tempo map off.

In this specific case, I actually fucked up my tempo map along the line and started slip editing 1/3 of a song to a slightly slower tempo. It is almost negligible at first, but once you start listening with the metronome you realize it's off. I want to fix this correctly...but just putting the proper time in the tempo map throws everything after off from where it was supposed to be. Short of cutting these tracks out and pasting them at the end of the project with a new tempo map to go off of, I'm kinda feeling at a loss.

I tried digging up more info on the Time Warp tool, but that simply corrects the tempo map to match the tracks. If I could go one step further and make those hits adjust for the tempo change, it would probably work...but I don't know how to go about that. I *could* erase the parts I slip edited in the wrong timing and just stretch it back to being one length of the part, but there is a punch-in halfway through the part. If I can figure out how to correct for this, I would be very greatful.

 

[aortizjr]

Maybe another Cubase guy can help, and I hope to learn something to since this is a PITA.

But from what I know, you are screwed. Or at least you have a lot fixing to do. But there are some things that you could have done initially to prevent this.

This is a case where you really should be using one project per song. For me if there are tempo changes and full on tempo maps, one project per song. To manage it all into a single project is nightmare because of all the shifts and changes down the road.

I understand the benefits of a single project file, but I will only do those if we are treating the songs more like tape and all slip editing and basing the tempo off the drums or a live recorded track.

But even then, I really only do it when tracking whole bands at once and I will do punch-ins that way and basic edits.

Then after that I will almost always take each song and put them into their own project file. I understand the theory of having a consistent mix, but in all honesty, no song ever does. One of my biggest breakthrough's in mixing was using automation, and once you play that game, all the songs in a single project file would be a nightmare of epic proportions. Especially for me since I use my control surface to do automation.

Also every song needs something a bit different. Maybe vocals wasn't as on it for the next song, or snare wasn't hit as hard, or just little tweaks here and there. Or just riffage is different requiring a tighter compression on the bass or just hair less/more EQ on guitars, etc. Then recall becomes an issue, then say song 5 sounds awesome and you want that to go back to song 1.. ugh!

Another thing you could have done is tracked in musical mode or convert your tracks to musical mode. In your Pool, you there is an option to have it musical mode and every track will have the tempo it was recorded at. Then it will lock the .wav file to the tempo and time stretch accordingly. But believe me, that can get ugly too and eats CPU, especially if you change the tempo in one part and it changes them all down the line. So again individual project files.

So from where you are at now, first off, do you really need the metronome? I mean if the tracks line up and it sounds good...it is good! If you are tracking additional tracks, can you follow the drums?

What I would do is extend or add blank audio and glue to get all the tracks to have the same starting bar, so you can line them up quickly and easily. But then completely ignore the tempo track. Of course you won't have grid perfect locking and editing capability and such, but then you just keep doing it old-ish school. Nothing wrong with that!

The other way is to pull each song out into its own project file. You can do the bulk export or copy and paste. I would probably use the arranger track. So all of Song1 is Part A, all of Song 2 is Part B, and so on. Then set up an arrangement of just part A, then flatten and Save As!! to make a new project.

That will bring over whatever mess of a tempo track and such, keep track names, notes, and I think even markers. Then if you really need the tempo track, you can fix it in that project or even map a totally new one based on the audio file. Then a bit of editing and done.

Then for mixing, since all your tracks will be named the same, just use the Save Mixer Settings feature for the mixing consistency. Get one song there or mostly there, then just save the entire mixer settings. I tend to do groups, ie. drums, guitar 1 set (multi-mics, di, etc.), guitar 2 set, bass, leads, lead vocal, backing vocals, etc. Then you can import those into the next project. Then if you do some change worth sending to other mixes, save that set of mixer settings and then import them into the others.

It is tedious, but really not that bad once you get the hang of it really. I can usually import everything in a minute and get to the final mixing and automation right away. Then usually the subtle changes are quick and not worth moving around. Of course that is after a couple hours on the first song usually. Also the last mix for me ends up being the best, so I will revisit the other songs and tweak another round or give them a full listen while bouncing. With one song per file, recall is 100% which is sweet.. well minus my outboard, I try not to touch those though once they are set haha.

Sorry for long ass post....

 

[Executioner213]

Yeah, I've been in a toss up between 1-song-per-file and 1-file-per-session for quite a while. Pros and cons to both methods. This specific issue might be what keeps me from doing it all in 1 file from here on out, though.

 

[Force666]

Not totally sure if this will cover what you're trying to fix. But make cuts at the beginning of each song on all tracks, and maybe even at all tempo changes (done easily by putting all tracks in a folder track). The change all the tracks settings to "musical time" (There is a little music note vs. the clock for "timeline"). You might have to cut out the spaces between the songs to allow "events" to slip backwards.

 

[Executioner213]

Ugh...I might just "save as" and make individual files for each song out of the original, cut out everything extra. Seems to be the only workable way around this.

 

[DestroyTheColossus]

I ran into this problem recently and came across an easy solution. When you make a tempo adjustment, find the offset that you created after the adjustment. You will either need to add time or delete time to make the rest of the session line up properly to the grid. Then, in the proper area, set the left and right locators, and edit> range.. insert silence (adds empty time to range), or edit> range.. delete time (removes time from range).

Gotta love this for those last minute changes because the band forgot how their song went while setting up the tempo track.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it would make more sense to make the tempo changes using the insert silence/ delete time options. If you added or deleted time using those rather than moving a tempo marker, Im pretty sure it would keep the rest of your session properly aligned.