Dan, what do you think about Opeth's new way?

Cortexon

Epic Member
Oct 30, 2004
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Hi Dan,
You know Opeth changed to roadrunner records and for the first time they made a video, publish their album as CD, Double-LP and limited hardbox edition, bring out a Single CD with a short 5-minutes version of "Grand Conjuration", participate in world-wide's chartlist and so on.

What's your opinion on this? Is this what you wanted when you produced Orchid with the young Akerfeldt back then? Or don't you care at all? Or are you proud about Opeth?

Would be nice and guiding to hear you opinion, Dan. Thanks.
 
The thing about Opeth is, they have lost their mystique. What made their first two albums so special was the mystique it possessed -- now they're churning out good, albeit, predictable music -- good for them I guess.
 
madu said:
That sounds like it could be from Star Wars x_x

And Mike's just one year younger than Dan :D

:D

Dan must have felt that the force was strong with young Åkerfeldt back then, and im sure he did his best to show him the right way. Roadrunner can lead bands to fame and money, this might have distracted his mind and has lead him toward the dark side.

:loco:
 
For My Sweetheart the Drunk said:
The thing about Opeth is, they have lost their mystique. What made their first two albums so special was the mystique it possessed -- now they're churning out good, albeit, predictable music -- good for them I guess.

I don't really understand what makes their newer stuff more predictable. If anything, it was the first two albums that sounded almost exactly alike, and were direct derivatives from the then-blossoming Gothenburg scene.

The newer stuff is as distanced from the current metal scene as you can hope to get. I've yet to hear a band that sounds anything like Ghost Reveries does.
 
Moonlapse said:
I don't really understand what makes their newer stuff more predictable. If anything, it was the first two albums that sounded almost exactly alike, and were direct derivatives from the then-blossoming Gothenburg scene.

The newer stuff is as distanced from the current metal scene as you can hope to get. I've yet to hear a band that sounds anything like Ghost Reveries does.

That's because you've probably never heard any of Mike Patton's assorted rock albums. There's a really mean Faith No More / Mike Patton on the vocals going on in Ghost Reveries, particularly on the first song. They've definitely taken a more proggish approach. That's not a bad thing. Ghost of Perdition is a great song, and I like Harlequinn Forest.

However, that being said, I have no idea how they can write a song like Baying of Hounds, considering they were so good at writing interesting lengthy songs. I think they have ideas for songs that fit around the 4-5 minute mark, and extend them to 10-12 minutes; as a result, it seems like the songs drag on forever. Which wasn't the case in their earlier albums. Black Rose Immortal lasts like, what, 18-20 minutes? You scarcely notice it. The arrangements per se aren't predictable, but after listening to the same 3 riffs for 3 minutes over and over, I mean, I could bust out my old punk albums and at least there will be some sort of song distinction every 3 minutes (or 30 seconds in the case of Agnostic Front hehe).

What I don't like is that their style doesn't seem to fit that really huge length anymore, and while their musicianship has kept growing, they need to realize that 10-15 minute songs don't work for every sound you come up with (think of My Arms, Your Hearse; they went with shorter songs that album, a direction they should have stayed on).

That being said, I think Opeth, other than the very notable exception of Damnation, hasn't released anything mind blowing since Morningrise. Their albums since have all been very good (well, Deliverance was just good, but Damnation balanced it out).

I might be biased, I dunno. I like Opeth a lot, but I've been listening to Enslaved for a long time, and for me that's a standard that even Opeth has a hard time meeting. Opeth's sound evolves but it doesn't change per se every album; pick up Enslaved's last three albums, and you'll be like, holy shit, what the fuck is going on here!? Which actually is what I felt about Ghost of Perdition; I think after that Ghost Reveries sort of dragged along. If you're going to go nuts, do it. If you do it for one song and then go right back to Deliverance (with an intermission at Harlequinn Forest), the album will drag on and become a little predictable because we've heard it before.

But keep in mind this criticism is precisely because we hold Opeth to a higher standard than most bands, one that Opeth themselves set; if this had been a new band, we'd be pretty impressed. But when you release great albums, everything you do will be in the shadow of that (think of Dark Tranquility, how they've never come close to equaling The Gallery).
 
Ok Mike patton, hes a fucking pot head who did a couple of good songs with faith no more and that was very limited. His solo stuff is hardly called music and i mean that quite literally, i think sometimes there is just a puff of bong smoke in that guys head.

Damnation was weak, Mordet i grottan pisses all over it apart from windowpane and closure.

Morningrise was bad because it was orchid with weirdo bass parts, and while they are fun to play it still scores a big WTF in my books as a songwritter.

GR is obviously opeth making up for deliverence, deliverence was a few good ideas rushed. GR is a more mature look on those idea and concepts, they added some different influence and some individual parts and jobs in the band completely changed.
 
I've had a variety of FNM stuff blasted at me throughout various drives in a friend's car. I can't say I see any resemblance with it on GR.

I think Black Rose Immortal is an exceptionally bad song to cite when trying to prove a point about continuity (unless of course you're arguing AGAINST Opeth having cohesion on the earlier albums). 8:55, 11:55 of the track can quite easily close the first half of it and wrap it up as one song. 14:46 pretty much begs to be the ending of the song. The entire thing just feels like a big rollercoaster of 'stop-start' riffs with absolutely no cohesion and no audible direction. The climaxes, the descents all happen within a few minutes, then keep coming back around and happening again.

The only one of their albums where I see a problem with the length is Deliverance, where it was quite obvious that they were stretching the songs out to fill the 10 minute mark. Ghost Reveries suffers from a bit of this during The Grand Conjuration, but aside from this I see no problem with lengths. A lot of the repetition in the songs serves to establish a certain ambience. I don't need particularily interesting parts happening 100% of the time to hold my attention.. I like my music to have pacing at logical spots.

After reading the 'hasn't released anything mind blowing since Morningrise' comment I might just bring my post to a halt. I suppose it's pretty obvious that we're on entirely different pages when it comes to music. You seem to look for something in their music that they abandoned long ago. I look for that one thing in their music that's (almost) always held true: their constant progression. I love the fact that GR is so different, and so non-metal sounding. I love the fact that it's alienating a lot of the hardcore fanbase, who tend to be guys that get a bit butt-hurt at their favourite obscure band of yesteryear catching mainstream attention through still creating fantastic music.

The sentimental factor of the first two albums wore off on me, and now all I'm left with is looking for musicianship.. the best of which (in my opinion) can be found on Still Life. But damn me, if Ghost Reveries didn't get right up there.
 
Moonlapse said:
I've had a variety of FNM stuff blasted at me throughout various drives in a friend's car. I can't say I see any resemblance with it on GR.

I think Black Rose Immortal is an exceptionally bad song to cite when trying to prove a point about continuity (unless of course you're arguing AGAINST Opeth having cohesion on the earlier albums). 8:55, 11:55 of the track can quite easily close the first half of it and wrap it up as one song. 14:46 pretty much begs to be the ending of the song. The entire thing just feels like a big rollercoaster of 'stop-start' riffs with absolutely no cohesion and no audible direction. The climaxes, the descents all happen within a few minutes, then keep coming back around and happening again.

The only one of their albums where I see a problem with the length is Deliverance, where it was quite obvious that they were stretching the songs out to fill the 10 minute mark. Ghost Reveries suffers from a bit of this during The Grand Conjuration, but aside from this I see no problem with lengths. A lot of the repetition in the songs serves to establish a certain ambience. I don't need particularily interesting parts happening 100% of the time to hold my attention.. I like my music to have pacing at logical spots.

After reading the 'hasn't released anything mind blowing since Morningrise' comment I might just bring my post to a halt. I suppose it's pretty obvious that we're on entirely different pages when it comes to music. You seem to look for something in their music that they abandoned long ago. I look for that one thing in their music that's (almost) always held true: their constant progression. I love the fact that GR is so different, and so non-metal sounding. I love the fact that it's alienating a lot of the hardcore fanbase, who tend to be guys that get a bit butt-hurt at their favourite obscure band of yesteryear catching mainstream attention through still creating fantastic music.

The sentimental factor of the first two albums wore off on me, and now all I'm left with is looking for musicianship.. the best of which (in my opinion) can be found on Still Life. But damn me, if Ghost Reveries didn't get right up there.

I don't argue either for or against continuity in Opeth's earlier work, just that they managed those 10-15 minutes songs a lot better than they do in Deliverance, and I don't think anyone can argue that (although I do think your criticism of the last 5 minutes of Black Rose Immortal is valid). The repitition in earlier albums seems a lot more deliberate and less noticeable, and as a result Opeth's older longish songs are just much more interesting than the stuff that came out on Deliverance and Ghost Reveries (Blackwater Park had some nice long ones, particularly the title track).

I also harbor no nostalgia for any magical earlier work from Opeth; I just don't think anything they've released since Morningrise (perhaps Damnation) has shown the same inspiration as that album. I'm not one of those people who oogles over the first two albums of a band and then laments them moving forward with their style. And of course Opeth has maintained an absolutely superior level of musicianship, I never questioned that, and I like Ghost Reveries very much. But this happens in literature as it does in music, often an author's earlier work is not transcended by his or her later efforts, regardless of the broadening of their talents and influences. I think this is the case with Opeth, that they continue to produce excellent, interesting music (Deliverance a mundane exception), but none of their albums after Morningrise, as a whole (there are obviously moments and albums that come close), compare to that master effort.

And as for Patton, the vocals on Ghost of Perdition reminded me so much of him. And I know there's no accounting for taste, but I think that's a very awesome thing, Ghost of Perdition and Hours of Wealth are my two favorite songs on the album. It simply reminds me of Patton's crooning on softer stuff, and the very proggish swagger of the album just reminds me of Patton's wackier prog side.

And jesus fucking christ, Opeth is not some religion. Just because you criticize a band doesn't mean you don't like them (particularly when you do it as respectfully as I did). My favorite metal /prog musician is Dan Swano (and Mr. Vintersorg deserves honorable mention) and my favorite metal band is Enslaved, I can hardly be accused of only liking bands that play an obscure, grimy metal style (it's not difficult for me to click on "Naglfar" on my playlist). I'm not going to tell anyone how to argue, but you do your own arguments a disservice when you accuse people of being "butt-hurt" when you don't agree with them.
 
I believe Dan has already answered a question like this, and his response was something close to "Opeth hasn't put out a better album than Morningrise"

Anyways, just do a search, you're sure to find it.
 
our last dialogue was erased...I have found sort of an answer dan wrote in another thread answering what does Dan think about the new opeth Album which is not entirely different from the question of this thread.

Dan said (and I quote):"I have only heard it in the background..but there are some moments that are the best they have done since Orchid..no doubt...the "basic" Opeth style of riffing is not "pop" enough for a guy like me. Too many notes sometimes:)"