Democracy Did Hiroshima

[the alumnus]

oh no, democracy dropped the bomb? sob!

seriously, there is no critical thinking here. how many japanese died in hiroshima and nagasaki bombings, and how many in the firebombings of tokyo (a wooden city)? just watch fog of war. the bomb was nothing compared to the fire bombings. fools.

 

[Norsemaiden]

oh no, democracy dropped the bomb? sob!

seriously, there is no critical thinking here. how many japanese died in hiroshima and nagasaki bombings, and how many in the firebombings of tokyo (a wooden city)? just watch fog of war. the bomb was nothing compared to the fire bombings. fools.

Good point.

The first such raid on Tokyo was on the night of February 23–24, when 174 B-29s destroyed around one square mile (~2.56 km²) of the city. Following on that effort 334 B-29s took off from the Mariana Islands on the night of March 9–10 heading for Tokyo. After 2 hours of bombardment, Tokyo was engulfed in a firestorm. The fires were so hot they would ignite the clothing on individuals as they were fleeing. What was particularly horrifying was a lot of the women were wearing what were called 'air-raid turbans' around their heads and the heat would ignite those turbans like igniting a wick on a candle to start consuming the flame. The aftermath of the incendiary bombings lead to an estimated 100,000 Japanese dead. This may have been the most devasting single raid ever carried out by aircraft in any war including the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The firebombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities is considered a war crime by some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_in_World_War_II

 

[Dushan S]

Do you realize how arrogant and stupid it is to expect everybody to just take whatever you say on this subject as gospel based solely on the fact that you were born in Yugoslavia? You have claimed that the US engineered Yugoslavia's collapse for the purpose of serving some US interest (which coincidentally you've failed to provide.) Do you realize what a radical claim this is? In this case the burden of proof is on you. Given the attitude that you've exhibited here, in any thread that comes up about the US, I expect you to shut the fuck up. If you speak up, I will inform you that I am right and you are wrong because I live there and have access to classified information, and although I have plenty of time to make longwinded posts accusing people of taking all their knowledge from CNN, and analyzing the psychological impetus behind their desire to contest a given point on the internet, I can't be bothered to come up with a SINGLE FUCKING SOURCE which in any way backs up my RADICAL CLAIM. You, sir, are full of shit. Good day.

First, I would tell you that you can suck my balls, but image of mentally retarded asshole licking my balls is not really doing any good for my libido, so I won't say that. You are on board where people with very different views like Multiculturalism vs Nazism can talk without using "fuck" and "shit" and keep argument civilized but it seems you are not able to get to that level of communication. So you can stuff your arrogant shit up your ass back from where it came, ok? Thank you very much.
I don't expect anything from anyone. I am myself always open to hear any kind of information. A lot of people are. It is giving a piece of picture, even if it is not completely accurate. Everyone is free to accept or reject any information. Do not project on me your own emotional problems, you obviously have. You don't have to agree with me or anyone else, but you have no right to act like you do.

Second, you are arrogant imbecile. It is so well known and accepted this days that US is going arround playing a world policeman, no big deal. It is also easy understandable that US has large intelligence network that is working on certain goals. If US has pollitical interests somewhere, it is NORMAL and EXPECTED to have network of agents there doing their jobs, and manipulating as much as they can in interests of US. So asking for concrete proofs that US was involved here, in balkans, would be funny, if you were not that much agressive in your full blown stupidity. It is not about if they were manipulating behind the scenes, they were (and they are still doing it wherever they can), , only question is in what way exactly the were manipulating, and we can eventually argue about that.
Also it seems that you have problem to distance yourself from your own goverment. If your identification with people leading your country is so strong, I can only express my concerns for your mental health. Criticism pointed towards acts of your goverment have nothing to do with what someone thinks about people and culture of people living in US, or you personally.

I'm tired of hearing this copout shit from people on this board.

Who fuckin cares what you are tired of. If you don't like it, leave this board.

I guess we might as well just throw history, political science, and similar academic disciplines out the window. After all, everyone's opinion is equal (depending on where you live), history is just people's opinions, and this being the case, all argumentation is essentially equivalent to banging one's head against a brick wall.

The fact you have problem with is that there is a big part of this planet that does not agree that informations presented in public are true. You are stupid enough to ask for "proofs", in a world where I can find dozen of books representing recent history according to interests of powers behind western goverments. A lot of people writing those books are working for institutions financed from those same goverments, or are/were pollitically involved with those same goverments. It is only your lack of common sense that amkes you think that if something is on the evening news, and it is in a few books it is automatically considered true. Your problem is that someone else does not automatically agrees with you own views. I mean, history books that are about to be written, telling about US saving world from Sadam in the name of humanity probably won't be considered as true in minds of Iraquis that mostly don't feel really like anyone is saving them there, except maybe "saving" them from having to deal with their own oil reserves etc.

 

[Dushan S]

You haven't commented on whether or not those boxes are correct. You seem to be trying to put me in a box as well, so I'm not that impressed with your "alternative."

Please, don't make me think you are unintelligent. You wrote that information in what country I am born does not only defines my nationality, according to you it defines even more about me. I assume you are using interesting source for that, and it would be interesting to share it with all of us here. it would be much easier to deal with people... You know place of their birth and you in turn know so much about them... It is even better than astrology!

Second, I was not trying to say you are X kind of person because you live in Y country so there is no way that I am putting you in a little box, you are doing that yourself. I am not trying to define you at all. Actually I don't see why I would be interested in anything about you, no offense. What I do try to point at, is an act of yours, and act can be labeled, and that is what I have done. That does not makes you stupid/smart/nice/bad/fag/straight/black/white/genius/retarded etc, but it seems your comment is a step in a direction of defining other people by place of birth, as I have already said. So please be kind and share your secrets of connecting geographic longitude and lattitude with psychological profile of a person with us.

 

[Dushan S]

Germany would not have nuked anyone. An indication of this is the fact that, having suffered badly in a poison gas attack during WWI, Hitler was firmly opposed to the use of poison gas, considering it too horrific. He chose not to break with the Geneva Protocol of 1925 in which major nations outlawed its use.

What a nice, humane person he was. Gas chambers in concentration camps anyone?
Ouch, I forgot. It is all just anti-german, lying evil democratic jew propaganda, making it all up, right? Now I feel much more relaxed.

 

[A Dying Breed]

Stop flaming me and make a fucking coherent point. Oh no I swore, you win. Here comes ten more pages of "You are the dumbass that flames people because you read the newspaper and love george bush PWNED"

Second, you are arrogant imbecile. It is so well known and accepted this days that US is going arround playing a world policeman, no big deal. It is also easy understandable that US has large intelligence network that is working on certain goals. If US has pollitical interests somewhere, it is NORMAL and EXPECTED to have network of agents there doing their jobs, and manipulating as much as they can in interests of US. So asking for concrete proofs that US was involved here, in balkans, would be funny, if you were not that much agressive in your full blown stupidity. It is not about if they were manipulating behind the scenes, they were (and they are still doing it wherever they can), , only question is in what way exactly the were manipulating, and we can eventually argue about that.

For the last time, you have claimed that the US ENGINEERED YUGLOSLAVIA'S COLLAPSE. AS IN, THE US IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WAR. You've also argued implicitly that it would not have happened at all independent of US intervention. Nothing in this heap of drivel supports your claim. The fact that the US has been construed as the "world policeman" does not support your claim. "JUST LOOK AT IRAQ, OF COURSE AMERICA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YUGOSLAVIA, STUPID RETARD DUMBFUCK!" is not persuasive.

there is a big part of this planet that does not agree that informations presented in public are true.

Proving what, exactly? What public?

You are stupid enough to ask for "proofs", in a world where I can find dozen of books representing recent history according to interests of powers behind western goverments. A lot of people writing those books are working for institutions financed from those same goverments, or are/were pollitically involved with those same goverments.

Yeah, because Western academia is just teeming with pro-US foreign policy sentiments. If your claim has any merit, if I go search for "US foreign policy" on Amazon right now, I should come up exclusively with a bunch of titles like "How America Brought Freedom to Iraq" and "How the IMF Saved South America."

It is only your lack of common sense that amkes you think that if something is on the evening news, and it is in a few books it is automatically considered true.

It is exactly my common sense that tells me that when a particular version of events is NOWHERE seriously considered in the vast body of academic literature concerning those events, that particular version is not likely to be correct.

Please, don't make me think you are unintelligent. You wrote that information in what country I am born does not only defines my nationality, according to you it defines even more about me. I assume you are using interesting source for that, and it would be interesting to share it with all of us here.

Now you want sources? Don't you realize that any source he might come up with is probably biased and funded by the US government? Also, let's not forget to be sensitive to the fact that infoterror may not believe that what is presented to him in public is true.

 

[speed]

Ok you two (Dushan, A Dying Breed). Enough with this, or any new posts are going to be deleted.

 

[Norsemaiden]

What a nice, humane person he was. Gas chambers in concentration camps anyone?
Ouch, I forgot. It is all just anti-german, lying evil democratic jew propaganda, making it all up, right? Now I feel much more relaxed.

I probably shouldn't post this but, looking at how this thread's going, I can't see the harm in it. And it is somewhat relevant - being about atrocities in WWII. And it mentions Japan.

Adolf Hitler experienced the effects of mustard gas use during World War I and was a twice and highly-decorated war hero. He abhorred, as did Franklin Roosevelt, the idea of using poison gas during warfare. Of the "great leaders", only Churchill (a drunk) and Stalin (a convicted criminal) rubbed their hands in glee over such prospects. Stalin didn't have the means and Churchill was opposed by the British Cabinet, at least, in part. Churchill, forever the war's most eloquent liar, described in a statement his desire, and vision, of Germans dying by the thousands in city after city. He wanted to "anthrax" the entire European continent but had to be satisfied with only a tiny island off the coast of Scotland for experimental purposes. Today, that island is still uninhabitable.

The proposed "gassing" of Iwo Jima was stopped cold by F.D.R. who also blocked a proposal for using poison gas against Japan proper. Hitler, in spite of recommendations, and insistence, from Hermann Goering, Robert Ley, and Martin Bormann, listened but never signaled approval. One could rightly wonder why those terrible Nazis, who were manufacturing TABUN, another nerve gas, by the tons, would stoop in atypical German-fashion, to using the insecticide ZYKLON-B to inefficiently "exterminate" hapless jews.

Chemically, TABUN is known as dimethyl-aminoethoxyl-cyanophosphine oxide. It is ten times more deadly than SARIN. Dr. Gerhard Schrader was also responsible for its development which was successful in the summer of 1939. Under the direction of Hermann Ochsner, a plant for its production was established in west Poland, that is, near the city of Dyhernfurth in Silesia. This was also the region where Soviet troops raped, mostly unto death, every German female from the age of 6 upwards (even elderly women in wheelchairs and the pregnant), during their "liberation" activities at the end of the war.

http://historiography-project.org/misc/sarin.html

 

[Dushan S]

Ok you two (Dushan, A Dying Breed). Enough with this, or any new posts are going to be deleted.

Actually I have intentionaly jumped over his latest response, I didn't read it and I won't make any replies... Speed, I am not so regular on this board, but I don't get it. You should have already deleted mine and his posts. Also, (even if I was intentionally vulgar in my response) usually I don't use certain language if I don't need to, but it seems that it is no problem here? Just asking, so I can safely say to everyone here I don't agree with that they suck and they should keep their shit for themselves etc without being banned or something. It seems it is ok, and it would make my argumentation stronger, so, let me know.


Norsemaiden, I just don't see how "facts" that allies leaders were immoral and liked idea of using gas makes Hitler look nice. Assumption (although it seems a lot of your "facts" is taken from second grade alternative history books nad pro-nazi-racist web sites) that other persons involved in biggest selfdestrustive spiral madness of mankind ever were also responsible for something ugly happening, does not makes a mass murderer that was mind architect behind stuff like gas chambers in concentration camps look like humanist that was against using gas.
A lot of dirty details about what allies have also done in WWII has come up here and there, but it does not makes anything nazis did look better. It just makes whole WWII event look even more ugly.
NM, it does makes you look like a teenage nazi fanboy girl with reversed svastika tatoo, that is intellectually oriented enough to spend some time reading. Coming up with some "alternative" racial theories when commenting recent world events is one thing, but constantly treating this kind of bullshit sites as serious source of information is something completely different. Not that I think that truth is what we learn, quite contrary, and, yes, a lot of things about WWII were twisted later into a good guys/bad guys fairy tale, but it does not means that truth is completely opposite. it is just that dirty loundry of allies was hidden, and that nazis were exposed in all their homocidal glory. In reality, everyone were just playing for themselves and their own selfish interests, but again, it does not makes Hitler look any better, it just sheds some light on truth about other involved in WWII.

 

[speed]

Actually I have intentionaly jumped over his latest response, I didn't read it and I won't make any replies... Speed, I am not so regular on this board, but I don't get it. You should have already deleted mine and his posts. Also, (even if I was intentionally vulgar in my response) usually I don't use certain language if I don't need to, but it seems that it is no problem here? Just asking, so I can safely say to everyone here I don't agree with that they suck and they should keep their shit for themselves etc without being banned or something. It seems it is ok, and it would make my argumentation stronger, so, let me know.

I didnt read this thread until I made the post for you guys to stop the fighting. Sorry, I dont patrol everything all the time. But, both you and A Dying Breed, I consider fairly regular posters of interest; thus I was hoping you could resolve your differences...