Dez wanted to changed.

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

Metal in general definately isn't complex and technical music. I don't know where that impression came from, but straight up metal is quite easy to play, just like most Opeth is. It's the composition in Opeth's music that's the real gem... alot of simple ideas used to make a grander one, which is what's so good about them.

i don't really dissect the music like that, what I meant was that you probably have to have a more open mind musically to like wide ranges of metal rather than MTV pop music, etc....

 

[DreamingofUr]

Metal in general definately isn't complex and technical music. I don't know where that impression came from, but straight up metal is quite easy to play, just like most Opeth is. It's the composition in Opeth's music that's the real gem... alot of simple ideas used to make a grander one, which is what's so good about them.

Superjoint and Metallica are just this simple idea, with nothing else in there. Metallica may have had their day, but it's well over now, and even they realize it, because on their tour here they're only playing old stuff, not even ONE song from St Anger.

Anyway, it's great to see that your honesty will get you flamed on here these days . Since this is such an OPEN-MINDED place.

I totally agree with that. Talking shit about a "closed minded" person is a sign of being close minded towards attitudes of different people. I am often called closed minded but I have an extremely open mind to music that fits my taste. Some people might think our range of musical taste is small but in reality it is much bigger because we can focus in on certain types that we enjoy most. Where as most people think its cool just to listen to many different genres that really do nothing for them. And for me composition and fusing styles is what I like to hear. Technical chops are always nice but that isnt what makes for good music IMO. And for people to enjoy music that is neither technical or have songwriters that dare not step outside the mold...I ask...what does that do for you??? I think people get offended if they listen to stupid bullshit and have their own tastes threatened by rational arguements made by people who feel a little more passionately about their musical tastes****.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

i hope thats not directed towards me in anyway, because i dont consider you closed minded btw....

 

[Ermz]

Sunlapse, the thing is, that I tend to dissect music like that, because I'm the only songwriter in my band, and I've been learning music for a couple of years now. Knowing the fundamentals of music gives you more of an appreciation for the bands that you see using those fundamentals in new ways, to create something new and interesting. I cannot even describe to you how BORING some of the music I used to LOVE became when I realized how simple all the ideas in there were.

Believe me, I'm not closed-minded, I've just moved on and started focusing on music that actually DOES something for me, yknow?

And thanks Dreaming, I agree with everything you said in there too.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse
If that's the case, I have to say, if anyone on here actually likes Superjoint Ritual or St. Anger era Metallica then I am truly stricken, disillusioned and disappointed with Opeth fans.


but this is the statement i have a problem with. this is being closed minded. some people may hear things in that stuff that would bring them pleasure, and you should respect and understand that.

 

[Lord Ridley]

Elitism.

It's very contagious and breeds directly off insecurity. Ever read The Emperor's New Clothes? In case you weren't too into fairy tales at a young age, here's a rundown:

A couple of con-men approach a king and tell him they can weave him the most beautiful clothing in the world that would be so smooth and silky he wouldn't even feel it, but the only catch is that the fabric they use will appear invisible to fools. The con-men ensure this "fact" gets spread quickly throughout the kingdom for good measure, as well. Afterwards, they request a tremendous amount of money to weave it for him, so he agrees and pays them. So, they spend the night pretending to weave imaginary garmets. They approach the king the next day pretending to hold said garmets. Of course the king doesn't see it because well, there's nothing there, but of course he isn't going to say he can't see it as that would reveal him to be a FOOL! Hence, he compliments the "beautiful clothing" and requests to be fitted with it immediately... After the con-men go through the charade of dressing him in it, he proudly parades around his kingdom wearing these wonderfully hand-woven, non-existent clothes. Of course he's naked, but no one says anything seeing that they're terrified to be singled out as an unfit retard who can't see the clothing! So here we have an entire kingdom pretending to see something that isn't there because everyone's terrified of non-conformity. This fairy tale could've also been titled, Society: A Satire.

This was written in like, the 17th century, and the moral still applies to society today, if not stronger, and esp. on music message boards --

These elitists who parade around here feeling elite because they don't conform to what MTV tells them to listen to, are just as guilty as conforming to deciding they don't like a band they probably liked before they came across a message board and got flamed for being ignorant for liking the band!

In all honesty, I used to be guilty of liking whatever the radio told me to listen to, and then I became guilty of not liking everything mainstream because the underground told me I was an ignorant fool for listening to it. (Sound familiar?) Then I grew up at some point, and decided I'd like whatever sounded good to me and inspired me throughout life. Unfortunately, too many people fall into one of the two "I just wanna fit in regardless of what I think I like", and there's absolutely no difference between listening to what MTV tells you to listen to and listening to what the self-elevated poster zealots tell you to listen to. None. Why would there be? They're saying "hop" and you're saying "how high". It's just that one is broadcasted through a TV monitor and the other is broadcasted through a computer monitor!

A lot of these self-proclaimed enlightened metalheads listen to a lot of the bands they don't really like the sound of, but like the fact that they listen to a roster of bands no one's heard of. It makes them feel well-versed to themselves amongst what they see as a gaggle of media-brainwashed mongoloids. They fall back on contentions such as, "I despise the fact that these cookie-cutter nu-metal bands are getting the recognition a lot of REAL metal bands SHOULD be getting", which is a contradiction on their behalf because the moment these metal bands they speak of DOES get the recognition they deserve, they're suddenly accused of selling out, sucking, etc. the usual bullshit. And this is in no way using Metallica as one example. If you ask me to site one awesome metal band beside Metallica that got hated by a large portion of their fanbase simply for becoming popular, I'll just ask you a bigger noodle-cooker -- Site me one metal band that received commercial success and DIDN'T get suddenly hated by a large portion of their fanbase, simply based on their commercial success even if the band didn't in any way, shape or form lose what made them an amazing band in the first place. I'll win that argument!

Listen, music is an art form, and to many, a testament of good taste, which signals intellect and individuality. For these reason alone it will fall into the subject of empty criticism. If a person finds a band they like that no one else is really into, they'll want to share it with the world, in hopes that it'll give other people the same sense of inspiration it gave to them. When they share it with someone who doesn't appreciate it as they do, they'll feel let-down and often, insulted, but when they discover other people who appreciate it, they cling on to these people, because obviously, these people have something in common with them -- high tastes. Soon, this small group of people will gather and huddle in the warmth of conformity with one another, and while they hoist their common ground high in the air and treat it with a collective reverence, they'll feel angst and rebellion toward all the ignorant masses of the world! They'll tell one another things such as, "we are the FEW, the PROUD, the ELITE. While those millions of infidels listen to simplistic music the media spoonfeeds them, we are the handful that actually recognizes true talent. Fuck, we set the standard. None of those fools will ever hope to achieve our level." Wow, and aren't they great! They've seperated themselves from the poor masses.

But alas! This band that the ELITE is holding in regard... suddenly, someone recognizes them! Suddenly, they're getting... god forbid... famous. Oh no! The ignorant masses are eating their material up! OH NO!

"How did this happen? Why do the ignorant fools appreciate what we're listening to all the sudden? They listen to simplistic music such as Linkin Park! They can't comprehend our music! ...Are we fools like they are?"

"NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! We are the few, the PROUD, the ELITE. It's not US, it's THEM! Our band has betrayed us! They stopped caring about us! They changed their music to appeal to them now, ...or something! Anything! Oh my god, they're on TV now! SELL-OUTS! We hate you! You are NU-METAL! Next month you shall be MALLCORE! The month after? Well, we haven't made up a derogatory name to describe your filth for three months in advance yet, but believe us when we say we'll be gathering in our small quartets with ten fingers ready to dance to your ignorance all day long! We will insult your new ignorant fans! With any luck we can convert them to listen to what we're listening to at the moment! WE WILL GROW, the few the proud the ELITE, and you will FALL, (insert awesome band that actually sold some records here)."

And so it continues. A genre is growing in popularity? Well, let it. Hate is the natural response; insecurity is the natural cause. I don't care. I love metal... it's a fantastic genre of music. Sure, there's a lot of crap out there. I wade through it. Why? Because there will ALWAYS be bands out there that will continue to inspire my life.

These idiots who proclaim the growing popularity of metal will be the death of the genre? Like I said... idiots to the extreme. There will ALWAYS be the truly talented out there who will continue to push the envelope. There will ALWAYS be that guy out there disgruntled with what he feels is a bland state of music, and wants to make a beautiful change... there will always be that drummer, that songwriter, that singer who wants to push the boundaries of music and be the next metal pioneer. It's in our human nature to outdue ourselves. For every cookie-cutter clone out there getting payed for a year to throw some distortion and double-pedals together, there will be that artist eager to show the world what he considers to be REAL music... or a real voice... or a real SOMETHING. Metal cannot die. Metal is music. Metal invokes those who pursue it to push forward.

They are who we look for. They are the only reason we should come to these forums. Should we feel insulted because some insecure putz said we're ignorant for listening to something that puts our soul on another level? Some insignificant screenname who will likely never have any impact on any positive aspect of yours, or anyone's, life? No. You come to this forum to find new bands people are lively discussing. You check them out. Don't like them? Move on. Like them? Listen to them! Someone tell you not to listen to them? Fuck them. Ask yourself, is this what I like? If so, listen. You are your own person and you're in control of what you do and do not like, and NEVER let anyone tell you otherwise.

Wade through these parasites of the beautiful art of metal. Ignore them, understand why they're here, they're purpose, and why they'll never leave as a result of human nature. Understand you're not here to try and change anyone's opinion, and understand you're not here to have anyone change your opinion. You're here to find and discuss new bands. Don't let them bring you down -- they're natural. Don't argue with them -- it's futile. Just enjoy the music.

Fuck elitists.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

funny thing is theres a ton of people who are just like that but will never admit it. and like i said, with metal growing more and more popular, the amount of elitists and the like grow as well.

 

[Ermz]

When exactly did this become about bands selling out, and fans becoming unappreciative?

Or is that just a generic essay you have lying around, to post under every semi-relevant topic, Ridley?

Although, I do agree with a majority of it. Thing is though, that you DO come to message boards to get your opinion changed, and to change others'... why else would you be discussing things in the first place? You're here to gain insight, and help others gain insight into your mind frame. It would be quite pointless to visit a message board and feel like you're hurling knowledge at a brick wall. And you do need to accept people who are single minded. That is THEIR choice... if a band changes and they don't like the 'progression', so to speak, that is THEIR choice. You are no authority on what is right and what is wrong, you have no right to tell them what they should like or not. Being 'open-minded' doesn't put you on a pedestal ready to preach to everyone.

It's not like 'commercial success' are empty words used to speak spitefully of a band. Those words carry weight, and they also mean, that since a band is becoming more popular, the old fans will begin feeling more disconnected from said band, the band will begin paying less attention to their old fanbase, and more on racking in the new fanbase... releasing albums that are easier to digest, albums that will get them even more fans, because for the band that's what it's all about. But for the old fans, you get something left to be desired. The old fans will feel left behind, unappreciated as more new fans come in... most likely people with less or hardly any insight into this new band that they like, and fans that may not appreciate the older material because it isnt as friendly to their ears. I mean those old fans have a justified reason for being bitter... you can't say that's wrong in the slightest. The old fans miss that old band that they fell in love with, that old band that doesn't exist in their eyes anymore. Just in case there's any doubt, I'm not reffering to any band in particular here, just speaking generally.

Once again though, I DO agree with a majority of what you said there, it's very true, especially the part about 'phases' which seemingly every metalhead goes through, which consists of 'I love anything on the radio', 'I hate EVERYTHING on the radio because it is untr00' and then finally settling on 'man, who gives a fuck, if it sounds good, I'll listen to it'. There's also another phase, that's recently happened to me, as I said before, the one where 'I learned the fundamentals of composing music, now all the bands I used to somewhat enjoy are boring as all hell to me'. That's where that statement that Sunlapse picked out comes into it. I suppose having been on the boards for so long, and having learned so much here, I feel that Opeth fans have something to live up to... a kind of conformed music taste if you will, to music that pushes the boundaries, not music that regresses ie. Metallica.

Anyway, that's my rant over and done with. *waves white flag* peace? lol.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Well, I hated the day that I found out I listened to mainstream music. It made me want to get into underground stuff and become an elitist.

Elitists make more elitists. It's sad.

BTW, I kept that elitist mentality for like two seconds. I developed the fuck-you-I-do-what-I-want attitude pretty fast. It's why I still love nu-metal.

I'm only an elitist when it comes to hip-hop. I hate when kids run around the music stores claiming that G-unit is hardcore rap. I KNOW that Public Enemy and Krs-One are better. And that's fact.

 

[Phrozenspite]

Site me one metal band that received commercial success and DIDN'T get suddenly hated by a large portion of their fanbase, simply based on their commercial success even if the band didn't in any way, shape or form lose what made them an amazing band in the first place. I'll win that argument!

I can name one, if you can count it as a commercial success that is... Carcass
just wanted to point that out but other than that I agree with you in many ways. heh

 

[Funeral Portrait]

I picked up the Devildriver cd from my work the other day, cuz with my discount I could get it for about 6 bucks. I figured, why not, its cheap and their going on tour with Opeth so I guess I'll check it out. The cd as a whole isn't really that bad. I still don't understand why they're touring with Opeth, but Devildriver is nowhere as bad as Coal Chamber. Dez does a much better job at vocals (even though his lyrics are pretty corny sometimes) and the other members in the band actually have some musical talent. I dunno what the point of this post is, guess I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

 

[blakmetalemp]

If that's the case, I have to say, if anyone on here actually likes Superjoint Ritual or St. Anger era Metallica then I am truly stricken, disillusioned and disappointed with Opeth fans.

There arent any Opeth fans on this board. Just a bunch of people that I never seen here before the board split.

 

[ViCyniC]

I really like listening to Opeth and I own/enjoy the album Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park. Preferences like mine do really exist. No need to conform to either 'leetist or mainstream whore mentality.

But I HATE Meteora.

 

[synergy]

I agree with Sunlapse, but Superjoint and metallica both suck.

 

[Funeral Portrait]

I really like listening to Opeth and I own/enjoy the album Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park. Preferences like mine do really exist. No need to conform to either 'leetist or mainstream whore mentality.

But I HATE Meteora.

Great. Now shut up.

 

[ViCyniC]

Oh yes, like you have any sort of control over what I may or may not want to post. Get over yourself dude, it's only a forum. And you also assumed that just because I enjoy an album from Linkin Park, that I must be an annoying post-whore that has no clue about *real* music, as some of you will assume. I'm starting to see what the author of this topic and Sunlapse Vertigo are talking about. Too bad that bad-mouthing over the internet is meaningless, and showing your elitist attitude does nothing but make you look arrogant and ignorant. Why are there so few level-headed people in here?

Well, excuse me while I listen to some Tupac. After that, maybe a little Still Life. Flame away. Better yet, just tell me to shut up. It's so easy to go aganist someone's wishes over the Internet.

 

[Ermz]

There arent any Opeth fans on this board. Just a bunch of people that I never seen here before the board split.

Good point. I almost feel old here considering about 95% of the people that welcomed me into this board are now gone.

 

[Funeral Portrait]

Oh yes, like you have any sort of control over what I may or may not want to post. Get over yourself dude, it's only a forum. And you also assumed that just because I enjoy an album from Linkin Park, that I must be an annoying post-whore that has no clue about *real* music, as some of you will assume. I'm starting to see what the author of this topic and Sunlapse Vertigo are talking about. Too bad that bad-mouthing over the internet is meaningless, and showing your elitist attitude does nothing but make you look arrogant and ignorant. Why are there so few level-headed people in here?

Well, excuse me while I listen to some Tupac. After that, maybe a little Still Life. Flame away. Better yet, just tell me to shut up. It's so easy to go aganist someone's wishes over the Internet.

Uh huh...right. Shut up.

 

[ViCyniC]

Uh huh...right. Shut up.

Wow, you actually fell for it. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[ggggggu]

Elitism.

It's very contagious and breeds directly off insecurity. Ever read The Emperor's New Clothes? In case you weren't too into fairy tales at a young age, here's a rundown:

A couple of con-men approach a king and tell him they can weave him the most beautiful clothing in the world that would be so smooth and silky he wouldn't even feel it, but the only catch is that the fabric they use will appear invisible to fools. The con-men ensure this "fact" gets spread quickly throughout the kingdom for good measure, as well. Afterwards, they request a tremendous amount of money to weave it for him, so he agrees and pays them. So, they spend the night pretending to weave imaginary garmets. They approach the king the next day pretending to hold said garmets. Of course the king doesn't see it because well, there's nothing there, but of course he isn't going to say he can't see it as that would reveal him to be a FOOL! Hence, he compliments the "beautiful clothing" and requests to be fitted with it immediately... After the con-men go through the charade of dressing him in it, he proudly parades around his kingdom wearing these wonderfully hand-woven, non-existent clothes. Of course he's naked, but no one says anything seeing that they're terrified to be singled out as an unfit retard who can't see the clothing! So here we have an entire kingdom pretending to see something that isn't there because everyone's terrified of non-conformity. This fairy tale could've also been titled, Society: A Satire.

This was written in like, the 17th century, and the moral still applies to society today, if not stronger, and esp. on music message boards --

These elitists who parade around here feeling elite because they don't conform to what MTV tells them to listen to, are just as guilty as conforming to deciding they don't like a band they probably liked before they came across a message board and got flamed for being ignorant for liking the band!

In all honesty, I used to be guilty of liking whatever the radio told me to listen to, and then I became guilty of not liking everything mainstream because the underground told me I was an ignorant fool for listening to it. (Sound familiar?) Then I grew up at some point, and decided I'd like whatever sounded good to me and inspired me throughout life. Unfortunately, too many people fall into one of the two "I just wanna fit in regardless of what I think I like", and there's absolutely no difference between listening to what MTV tells you to listen to and listening to what the self-elevated poster zealots tell you to listen to. None. Why would there be? They're saying "hop" and you're saying "how high". It's just that one is broadcasted through a TV monitor and the other is broadcasted through a computer monitor!

A lot of these self-proclaimed enlightened metalheads listen to a lot of the bands they don't really like the sound of, but like the fact that they listen to a roster of bands no one's heard of. It makes them feel well-versed to themselves amongst what they see as a gaggle of media-brainwashed mongoloids. They fall back on contentions such as, "I despise the fact that these cookie-cutter nu-metal bands are getting the recognition a lot of REAL metal bands SHOULD be getting", which is a contradiction on their behalf because the moment these metal bands they speak of DOES get the recognition they deserve, they're suddenly accused of selling out, sucking, etc. the usual bullshit. And this is in no way using Metallica as one example. If you ask me to site one awesome metal band beside Metallica that got hated by a large portion of their fanbase simply for becoming popular, I'll just ask you a bigger noodle-cooker -- Site me one metal band that received commercial success and DIDN'T get suddenly hated by a large portion of their fanbase, simply based on their commercial success even if the band didn't in any way, shape or form lose what made them an amazing band in the first place. I'll win that argument!

Listen, music is an art form, and to many, a testament of good taste, which signals intellect and individuality. For these reason alone it will fall into the subject of empty criticism. If a person finds a band they like that no one else is really into, they'll want to share it with the world, in hopes that it'll give other people the same sense of inspiration it gave to them. When they share it with someone who doesn't appreciate it as they do, they'll feel let-down and often, insulted, but when they discover other people who appreciate it, they cling on to these people, because obviously, these people have something in common with them -- high tastes. Soon, this small group of people will gather and huddle in the warmth of conformity with one another, and while they hoist their common ground high in the air and treat it with a collective reverence, they'll feel angst and rebellion toward all the ignorant masses of the world! They'll tell one another things such as, "we are the FEW, the PROUD, the ELITE. While those millions of infidels listen to simplistic music the media spoonfeeds them, we are the handful that actually recognizes true talent. Fuck, we set the standard. None of those fools will ever hope to achieve our level." Wow, and aren't they great! They've seperated themselves from the poor masses.

But alas! This band that the ELITE is holding in regard... suddenly, someone recognizes them! Suddenly, they're getting... god forbid... famous. Oh no! The ignorant masses are eating their material up! OH NO!

"How did this happen? Why do the ignorant fools appreciate what we're listening to all the sudden? They listen to simplistic music such as Linkin Park! They can't comprehend our music! ...Are we fools like they are?"

"NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! We are the few, the PROUD, the ELITE. It's not US, it's THEM! Our band has betrayed us! They stopped caring about us! They changed their music to appeal to them now, ...or something! Anything! Oh my god, they're on TV now! SELL-OUTS! We hate you! You are NU-METAL! Next month you shall be MALLCORE! The month after? Well, we haven't made up a derogatory name to describe your filth for three months in advance yet, but believe us when we say we'll be gathering in our small quartets with ten fingers ready to dance to your ignorance all day long! We will insult your new ignorant fans! With any luck we can convert them to listen to what we're listening to at the moment! WE WILL GROW, the few the proud the ELITE, and you will FALL, (insert awesome band that actually sold some records here)."

And so it continues. A genre is growing in popularity? Well, let it. Hate is the natural response; insecurity is the natural cause. I don't care. I love metal... it's a fantastic genre of music. Sure, there's a lot of crap out there. I wade through it. Why? Because there will ALWAYS be bands out there that will continue to inspire my life.

These idiots who proclaim the growing popularity of metal will be the death of the genre? Like I said... idiots to the extreme. There will ALWAYS be the truly talented out there who will continue to push the envelope. There will ALWAYS be that guy out there disgruntled with what he feels is a bland state of music, and wants to make a beautiful change... there will always be that drummer, that songwriter, that singer who wants to push the boundaries of music and be the next metal pioneer. It's in our human nature to outdue ourselves. For every cookie-cutter clone out there getting payed for a year to throw some distortion and double-pedals together, there will be that artist eager to show the world what he considers to be REAL music... or a real voice... or a real SOMETHING. Metal cannot die. Metal is music. Metal invokes those who pursue it to push forward.

They are who we look for. They are the only reason we should come to these forums. Should we feel insulted because some insecure putz said we're ignorant for listening to something that puts our soul on another level? Some insignificant screenname who will likely never have any impact on any positive aspect of yours, or anyone's, life? No. You come to this forum to find new bands people are lively discussing. You check them out. Don't like them? Move on. Like them? Listen to them! Someone tell you not to listen to them? Fuck them. Ask yourself, is this what I like? If so, listen. You are your own person and you're in control of what you do and do not like, and NEVER let anyone tell you otherwise.

Wade through these parasites of the beautiful art of metal. Ignore them, understand why they're here, they're purpose, and why they'll never leave as a result of human nature. Understand you're not here to try and change anyone's opinion, and understand you're not here to have anyone change your opinion. You're here to find and discuss new bands. Don't let them bring you down -- they're natural. Don't argue with them -- it's futile. Just enjoy the music.

Fuck elitists.

whatever...