we only get 7% of our oil from iraq... and if it was all about oil, we could have bought all the oil over there for the amount we have spent to move our troops there...
sayin'
sayin'
did any of you watch Frontline on PBS last night?
- Thread starter deadair
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avi
W3RK3R
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
Wait, it's not about how much we get from Iraq; I think if anything it would be about how much we get from Saudi Arabia. Once we secure Iraq's oil, we can reduce our Saudi-oil consumption to zero, and then we don't have to suck up to those horribly evil super-religious dictators who run the country, and can do some Saudi "regime change", which probably HOPEFULLY will be in a non-military way.
But yeah, anyway, I think that's a short-term plan, not long-term.
But yeah, anyway, I think that's a short-term plan, not long-term.
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I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
The Dope
Hi.
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I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
The UN would never make such a strong statement.
"Saddam...he's a man I can do business with."
--Kofi Annan
"Saddam...he's a man I can do business with."
--Kofi Annan
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I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
"We condemn this dam-blowing-up, but we're not going to do anything about it. Also, we condemn Israel."
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I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
I didn't know about this, from the first Gulf War:
Before the fires, Iraq was responsible for intentionally releasing some 11 million barrels of oil into the Arabian Gulf from January to May 1991, oiling more than 800 miles of Kuwaiti and Saudi Arabian coastline. The amount of oil released was categorized as 20 times larger than the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska and twice as large as the previous world record oil spill. The cost of cleanup was estimated at more than $700 million.
Before the fires, Iraq was responsible for intentionally releasing some 11 million barrels of oil into the Arabian Gulf from January to May 1991, oiling more than 800 miles of Kuwaiti and Saudi Arabian coastline. The amount of oil released was categorized as 20 times larger than the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska and twice as large as the previous world record oil spill. The cost of cleanup was estimated at more than $700 million.
more fun facts --
sadam told his commanders, that if communication gets cut off between the commanders and baghdad/sadam, to use chemical weapons.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
sadam told his commanders, that if communication gets cut off between the commanders and baghdad/sadam, to use chemical weapons.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
is that for sure? i mean, why would he do that? he has so much to lose by using them and so much to gain by not.
chupe666
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FalseTodd
Skirt Wizard
<i>like bush blathering on and on about al-qaeda connections and weapons of mass destruction when neither are the real issue, but the easiest for us to grasp and get behind.</i>
Can it be that I agree about something with XFer? Holy crap. That radio interview was so massively frustrating. It's easy to say, yeah, that girl made an ass out of herself. But I think her opponent made just as big an ass out of himself with his little girl bullshit.
She couldn't answer his question because his question catered directly to his viewpoint, and as such left out important issues.
What I find so offensive about this war is the absolutely ham-handed manner in which diplomacy has been handled by the Bush administration, and the effect this will have on the US' position in the world. I think Bush has confirmed the worlds' worst opinions about US power on many occasions since Sept. 11 - Axis of Evil, tossing the French and the Germans out with the bathwater, etc.
I am most upset during this whole thing about the American media and their relationship with the military during this whole build-up. The media's coverage of our military and their capabilities has been nearly pornographic, and rates as propaganda in my book. Time magazine reads like a fucking Tom Clancy book now.
Can it be that I agree about something with XFer? Holy crap. That radio interview was so massively frustrating. It's easy to say, yeah, that girl made an ass out of herself. But I think her opponent made just as big an ass out of himself with his little girl bullshit.
She couldn't answer his question because his question catered directly to his viewpoint, and as such left out important issues.
What I find so offensive about this war is the absolutely ham-handed manner in which diplomacy has been handled by the Bush administration, and the effect this will have on the US' position in the world. I think Bush has confirmed the worlds' worst opinions about US power on many occasions since Sept. 11 - Axis of Evil, tossing the French and the Germans out with the bathwater, etc.
I am most upset during this whole thing about the American media and their relationship with the military during this whole build-up. The media's coverage of our military and their capabilities has been nearly pornographic, and rates as propaganda in my book. Time magazine reads like a fucking Tom Clancy book now.
avi
W3RK3R
FalseTodd said:
that's exactly what i've been thinking, too. it's not the war itself that bothers me as much as the way we entered into it. the lack of international diplomacy from the bush govn't is the scariest thing about the situation. the damage they've done in this dept. is staggering.
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I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
Well, that bothers me to the extent that it was the "hows". I sure as fuck don't think the decision to or to not go to war should be affected by the UN, France, or the like, but I wish Bush had had the political and personal charisma to bring them on board. Even if it was by pretending to think about abiding by "international decree".
However, I think it's a two-way street, and Bush's shouldering around simply provided an opportunity for darker elements to make their move. France is clearly looking to set itself up as the leader of the European superstate, and the European superstate as a powerful and effective rival to the United States, and as such Bush's efforts for diplomacy were basically doomed: no matter how well-schmoozed, totally absent of considerations of legitimacy, the Europeans would never lend legitimacy to America in this case. Because this is France's chance to matter again.
Then again, like I said, maybe a better President, a dazzling diplomat, could have tricked and cajoled things to happen in a different way. Maybe. But I'm not entirely comfortable pointing the finger solely at Bush when I can't see what else he specifically could have done in the face of French intransigence.
However, I think it's a two-way street, and Bush's shouldering around simply provided an opportunity for darker elements to make their move. France is clearly looking to set itself up as the leader of the European superstate, and the European superstate as a powerful and effective rival to the United States, and as such Bush's efforts for diplomacy were basically doomed: no matter how well-schmoozed, totally absent of considerations of legitimacy, the Europeans would never lend legitimacy to America in this case. Because this is France's chance to matter again.
Then again, like I said, maybe a better President, a dazzling diplomat, could have tricked and cajoled things to happen in a different way. Maybe. But I'm not entirely comfortable pointing the finger solely at Bush when I can't see what else he specifically could have done in the face of French intransigence.
avi
W3RK3R
that's an interesting way of looking at it, but I definitely still resent Bush's efforts at diplomacy. the people in his cabinet have barely travelled abroad at all. if they had a compelling case and worked harder at it, I don't doubt they could've formed a broader coalition.
FalseTodd
Skirt Wizard
Yes but I think there are shades of grey there, and France-on-board, France-not-on-board are not the only two possible outcomes. I think the outcome we got was France-not-on-board-US-gives-outward-appearance-of-living-up-to-war-mongering-cowboy-stereotype.
Mainly I'm just tired of naive bullshit, like the ultra-left girl at work who, in answer to the age-old question "how many people does the US act as big brother for?" said "Well, all of them! It's one globe, man." Yeah buh but....
Mainly I'm just tired of naive bullshit, like the ultra-left girl at work who, in answer to the age-old question "how many people does the US act as big brother for?" said "Well, all of them! It's one globe, man." Yeah buh but....
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