Dime's senseless death is a good reminder that we need better gun laws...

[gubby]

Guns are for pussies.

nafnikufesin, im sorry as i missed your first point. You have some good ideas, I'm just unsure about whether or not they would actually work. It would be nice indeed if the police could stop crimes before they happen.

And while we're blaming people for not using logic, lets blame TD while we're at it. He doesnt back up any of his claims with evidence, and he believes that "guns are for pussies." And by that (il)logic, he truly thinks that our soldiers fighting in Iraq are pussies, and he might as well go fight with the Iraqi infidels! So TD, if you dont support our country and/or troops, I'll give you this word of advice: GET THE FUCK OUT.

and here is some food for thought:

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
>From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. >From 1915
to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from
1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were
unable to defend themselves were rounded up and
exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948
to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to
defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From
1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to
defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971
to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From
1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in
the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in
Australia were forced by new law to surrender
640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their
own government, a program costing Australia
taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent
(yes, 44 percent!)
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with
firearms are now up 300 percent.
(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned
them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still
possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a
steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this
has changed drastically upward in the past 12
months,since the criminals now are guaranteed that
their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in
break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain
how public safety has decreased, after such
monumental effort and expense was expended in
"successfully ridding Australian society of guns."
The Australian experience and the other historical
facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the American evening
news or hear our president, governors or other
politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives
and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only
the law-abiding citizens.

 

[kayz]

no horrible pun intended..

he's english, i'm american. while we both grew up in the country as opposed to the city, he's a meat eater, i'm vegetarian. yet, long before i went completely veggie, i picked up a rifle and learned how to hunt at the age of 8. i grew up around nugent country in michigan and that i'm tellin you is where we ask kids back then had a healthy respect and fear of guns. fear as in REVERENCE.

since my fiance's english he has often had very different opinions about guns and gun control since it's illegal in england. but he and i love the idea of regularly target practicing - with handguns or rifles.

after this incident with darrell he knew better than to say anything in argument of more gun control laws over in the US because it may not have prevented a damn thing. the lunatics will always find a way to accomplish what they want.

but if i want a gun for my own protection, don't you dare big brother govt, take that right away from me...

man i have no problem with a wand being waved around me prior to being allowed into a show regardless of the venue size. what all are your thoughts on this?

 

[kayz]

CORRECTION - i grew up in nugent country where we AS kids ... so sorry.. my mistake

 

[gubby]

I agree 100%. The day this country starts taking away our personal freedoms is the day this country falls. What would it be called? It would swing from "America, The Land of the Free" to "America, The Land of the Oppressed."

 

[Grim509]

Let's face it, and this IS fact: guns don't kill people, people kill people.
If someone wants to kill, they will find a way to do it. Gun or no gun. If this douchebag had a knife, it sounds like he was close enough where he coulda stabbed or slashed Dime's neck or whatever. More laws will only keep law-abiding citizens from being able to obtain guns. The government needs to enforce the laws that already exsist, before making more. Simple as that. As for all the statistics of guns killing in the home, and stolen guns, I hate to be harsh, but those gun owners are idiots. You need to lock and hide the guns. It's not that hard. A keypad safe. Less than five seconds and you're in. That's enough time to arm yourself.

It all lies in something that seems to be missing in today's society. Common sense. Keep the guns out of the reach of kids. Keep the guns out of reach of the criminals. NOT the law abiding citizens.

Also, a side note. The right to bear arms is not for protection from other countries. That's why we have a military. It is for protection from our own government.

 

[mrthrax]

just another sad tragedy,what can u really change now.

 

[mrthrax]

i dont know if u have already stated this jdelpi but do u own a gun,are u trained to use one and would u have the balls to shoot someone dead,i aint putting u down i am just asking.

 

[Arg_Hamster]

Oh yeah... the thing I have doubts about isn´t giving guns to people if it was certain they won´t use them for illegal purposes, some "controlpoint" in society would be necessary to make sure no unstable persons or criminals get guns to minimize shootings like this, because I think that would lead to a lot of government control over the citizens. I think that whatever is choosen personal freedom will suffer so this 2 amendment doen´t feel quite right because why would the same government forbid or discurage people to take drugs, go through abortions or do dangerous activities like riding horses, motorbikes and driving fast cars, however... I´m a cynic (and fucking proud of it) and my faith in others and their gods, morals and sanity isn´t that great.

Morally it´s a bit like if the government should have DNA-samples of all citizens, it helps criminal investigators solving old crimes and finding out if someone is in the risk of cancer but at the same time the government could easily sell the samples to someone like insurance companies so some people are denied a health insurance. Hope that cleared up some things.

 

[Buddy_Love_Bomb]

If guns are for pussies, then TD must have a dozen or so..

 

[jdelpi]

Just more crimes and more deaths are caused by guns per capita in the US than any other country in the world. So the whole "more guns=less death" argument is a crock of shit. That you have no faith in your government or your police to protect you shows that you have a big problem with your government, which is lobbied by NRA to keep the status quo.

So your solution is to make it illegal for law-abiding people to own firearms for their protection? I've already pointed out two major factors that lead to crime. I've already pointed out another country with a high concentration of guns that has low crime (Switzerland). You, in the typical liberal attitude, place the blame on inanimate objects, rather than people.

As for faith, I have no faith in anything. If I have *reason* to believe in something, I will. I don't base anything on faith. That is closing the eye of reason. Now, I am not particularly sure what gives the government the power to take away my right to self defense and say "hey, maybe we'll protect you if we can and feel like it." It has been well-established in the courts of all 50 states and the District of Columbia that the police have NO obligation at all to protect citizens. In other words, if they ignore your call to 911 and you die, they're still not liable. So I make no apoligies if I would like to retain my right to self-defense.

 

[jdelpi]

Then, as I alluded to in an earlier post, maybe the answer doesn't lie in gun control laws or lack thereof, and the millions of dollars that the NRA is throwing at politicians to maintain the status quo. Maybe that money would be better spent in improving law enforcement to be more prominent in crime prevention instead of crime response. But then if that happened, all the people that were paranoid about criminals trying to hurt them with guns or knives or sharpened popsicle sticks would complain about Big Brother controlling them, because they have to be paranoid of something.

Yeah, so let's waste precious police resources making sure innocent people don't own guns. (sarcasm)

 

[jdelpi]

Guns are for pussies.

Then yes, all police officers, private security guards, people in the military and our Founding Fathers are pussies. (sarcasm) And what about older people who own guns because they have crime in their neighborhood? Also, all those civil rights leaders and blacks in the South in the 1870s who owned guns to protect themselves from the Klan, they must qualify as pussies under your standard. (Remember, the first gun control laws in the United States were to prevent blacks from owning guns.) And woman who own guns ... are they pussies? I mean, I know they have one.

Ty, I love how you come here, make one blanket statement saying we need gun bans and bail after you get hit with dozens of arguments against government gun control. Then you respond with four words, one of them being pussy. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Maybe you should put down the crack pipe.

 

[AlexStomp]

The dude that murdered Dime was a coward(pussy), and if Dime was packing heat to "protect" himself, I doubt the outcome would have been much different.

I don't care about gun laws. If you need one for work or military or for whatever reason(drug dealer maybe?), that's you. Go ahead and have one. It's our constitutional right. But I firmly believe that guns are not the solution. A gun is not for me. If I fucked people over, then maybe I'd have reason to carry a gun. I'm always aware of my surroundings but I'm not gonna live a paranoid life where every "stranger" is a life threatening criminal.

 

[jdelpi]

Some numbers:
The risk of losing a family member killed with a gun is 22 times higher, if you have a weapon at home.
Only 2 (!!!) % of all shootings in family houses are at burglars.
250 000 000 guns are in private property in the USA. 500 000 are stolen every year! (That’s how many criminals get them -> steal it from private gun owners who want to “protect” themselves!)
-----------------------
Victims killed with guns:
Germany: 381,
France 255,
Canada 165
Great Britain 68
USA 11 127
Citizens (to compare):
Germany: 82 500 000
France 58 000 000
Canada 30 000 000
Great Britain 59 000 000
USA 290 000 000

--------------------------------------
It’s true: A planed murder can’t be prevented with better gun-laws.
But a killing spree or an accident (kids finding daddies weapons) wouldn’t happen, if there is no gun.
The argument to bear weapons to defend your country from other countries:
Well, you’re not Afghanistan. You dont sit on horses anymore. A handgun can’t protect you from rockets, planes, bombs or any other “invasion”.

The fact is, that the weapon industry is a huge and powerfull industry in the USA and (and that’s the only argument of the gun lobby that I really believe): It’s a tradition in the USA for hundreds of years to bear weapons.

My hometown (2 000 000 citizen) of course isn’t free of criminals. We’ve many burglars, especially gangs from eastern europe. But the death rate is really low. This weekend we had a headline: a prostitute was shot in her shoulder in a bar. It was a headline, because it’s really rare here.
I worked in a bar for 6 years. It was in a real bad district and many strange people went there. I had much to do with the police and with drunken people fighting, etc. But I never saw or heard a weapon!
Now I’m working with kids between 15 and 18. All of them jobless. Many of them have drug problems or got arrested because of stealing or fighting. I saw many bad things, but I NEVER saw someone with a weapon. (ok, I lied. I saw knifes and brass knuckles, needles, baseball bats, .......but NO guns)
What I mean is: It’s not easy to get a gun here. If you want one, it’s expensive and chancy. The consequence of a strikt weapon-law.
Other example:
In my country, people are allowed to drive very fast, and they do.
Many people die in their cars every year.
In the USA you’ve very low speedlimits. The death rate is lower than in my country.
Another one?
Alcohol is easy to get here in my country. It’s allowed to drink with 16.
When I was a kid, I loved it. But my country has the biggest alcohol-problem in Western-Europe. We’ve 12 year old alcoholics! Why? Because it’s a tradition to produce alcohol and to drink alcohol.
And some parents say: Well, it’s allowed with 16. So, you’re 14. Forget the years. Taste it.
Nobody really controls IDs in bars, etc.

Don’t get me wrong: I don’t like laws. “Normal” citizens, like you and me don’t need them, because we mostly take care of ourselves. But some people need laws that tell them what’s good for them and what is not. I believe, that these numbers up there say everything about the gun laws.

Don't get me wrong. I don’t believe, that dime would be alife, if blabla......
I don’t want to say, that my country (or any other) is better than the usa. My politicians are the same idiots as yours are ;-).


R.I.P. Dime

PS: Sorry for my bad english. It sucks.

This statistic about guns "in the home" includes when criminals bring them in the home, suicides and when a woman uses one against an abusive spouse. It also does not factor in when guns are used to merely scare a criminal away or is used to wound the criminal intruder but not actually kill him or her. The sample used in the study was also biased towards subjects with an extraordinarily high criminal history, drug use and other dysfunctions. It is a totally bogus and useless claim.

Of course, that evil NRA does run a program with its own money to teach children gun safety. (The NRA was actually formed because some Union leaders after the War Between the States thought the Union soldiers had poor marksmanship skills.) You won't read about this program in the NY Times or hear about it on CBS News, but it does exist. Not only that, but it does not try to teach children that guns are good to have. It only teaches children why they should not handle guns at their young age and what to do if they find one (tell an adult and don't touch it).

Also, killing sprees are made easier with gun control. In 1991, a man drove his car into a Luby's Cafeteria and opened fire, killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others. Suzanna Hupp was there and would have used her gun if it weren't for the fact that she was not legally allowed to carry it in Texas at the time. She was legally allowed in her home state then of Oklahoma, but not in Texas. She witnessed both of her parents get murdered. She later ran for state legislature and won. She was a major proponnent of the concealed carry law Texas passed in the late 1990s.

 

[jdelpi]

Also, a side note. The right to bear arms is not for protection from other countries. That's why we have a military. It is for protection from our own government.

I think it can be both, but you're correct on where the emphasis is. Just read the Declaration of Independence.

 

[jdelpi]

The dude that murdered Dime was a coward(pussy), and if Dime was packing heat to "protect" himself, I doubt the outcome would have been much different.

I don't care about gun laws. If you need one for work or military or for whatever reason(drug dealer maybe?), that's you. Go ahead and have one. It's our constitutional right. But I firmly believe that guns are not the solution. A gun is not for me. If I fucked people over, then maybe I'd have reason to carry a gun. I'm always aware of my surroundings but I'm not gonna live a paranoid life where every "stranger" is a life threatening criminal.

It's true that people who commit crimes like the man who killed Dimebag are "pussies" or cowards or whatever you want to call them. However, since I know where TD stands politically,I know he meant people who purchase guns for protection are pussies. THAT is what I had a problem with.

 

[jdelpi]

Morally it´s a bit like if the government should have DNA-samples of all citizens, it helps criminal investigators solving old crimes and finding out if someone is in the risk of cancer but at the same time the government could easily sell the samples to someone like insurance companies so some people are denied a health insurance. Hope that cleared up some things.

I own myself and the government has no right to my DNA unless they have a warrant from a judge probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, against me. Now as for keeping the DNA from convicted criminals, I am all for that as part of their punishment.

 

[jdelpi]

Then, as I alluded to in an earlier post, maybe the answer doesn't lie in gun control laws or lack thereof, and the millions of dollars that the NRA is throwing at politicians to maintain the status quo. Maybe that money would be better spent in improving law enforcement to be more prominent in crime prevention instead of crime response. But then if that happened, all the people that were paranoid about criminals trying to hurt them with guns or knives or sharpened popsicle sticks would complain about Big Brother controlling them, because they have to be paranoid of something.

Actually, the NRA has actively promoted harsher penalties for crime, including crimes committed with guns. They're no dumbies. They support gun ownership to prevent crime, and they support harsher penatlies for crime. They also know people who commit crimes with guns hurt their cause. You won't find NRA members robbing banks.

However, I oppose their positions on criminal law, because under the US Constitution nearly all crime falls under the jurisdiction of the states, not the federal government. Either way, I would not call the NRA "soft on crime" like many liberal politicians.

 

[jdelpi]

Then, as I alluded to in an earlier post, maybe the answer doesn't lie in gun control laws or lack thereof, and the millions of dollars that the NRA is throwing at politicians to maintain the status quo. Maybe that money would be better spent in improving law enforcement to be more prominent in crime prevention instead of crime response. But then if that happened, all the people that were paranoid about criminals trying to hurt them with guns or knives or sharpened popsicle sticks would complain about Big Brother controlling them, because they have to be paranoid of something.

People are not waiting for the government to prevent crime. They are preventing crimes themselves every day with their guns. The private security industry is rapidly growing, and companies are realizing more and more that in order to protect themselves they must maintain their own security forces.

When you live a country where the police can seize your property without probable cause and without charging you with a crime and you must fight them in court to get it back, you have every right to complain about Big Brother.

 

[GASOLINEDREAM]

WOW, TD!! WHat kind of a shitstorm did you start here????!!!!!!!!


I am not generically "pro-gun", but i am for guns and having them. And DAMN are they fun to shoot!!!!

There are shitloads of laws out there on guns---WE do NOT need anymore. We need proper follow-up on the laws that are there--get rid of the bad laws, keep the decent ones and ENFORCE them! You break a law with a gun--i.e. kill someone, shoot someone, rob someone, etc. YOU are FUCKED! ENFORCE laws that are there already. Don't make new ones.

IN the U.S. money makes the world go round. I really think these shithead politicians make most of the laws they make for one thing--well maybe 2: MONEY (and POWER)

Laws make money for somebody. Seatbelt laws, speeding, etc. They tell you it's for safety, but usually it's for money.

Anyhow, I probably haven't added much to this conversation, but there it is anyways.