Direct guitar sounds thin when reamping!

[Lige]

Hi everybody
I am in the process of recording direct guitar tracks that, at a later stage, I am going to reamp in my friends studio. I am using a metric halo ULN-2 sound card, that I have routed, so that the guitar track I am recording in Logic pro comes out of one of the metric halo outputs, that is set to +4db, which is connected to my radial X-amp (with a balanced cable) and then to amplifier. Within logic pro I have created a bus track controlling the output of the track I am recording, that I have done because, I read somewhere due to something called panning laws(?) the output is reduced 3db when using a DAW. My problem is no matter how I set the fader in logic or how set the output of my X-amp, the sound comming out of my amp (B-52 tri mode rectifier) is quite thin and harsh compared to whbn plugging in my guitar straight in the amp...Is this one of the downsides when reamping, or is it maybe my lack of experince with reamping that may be problem? anyone with experinced the same problem?
thanx

 

[Torniojaws]

You should be getting about 90 - 95 % of the original tone (guitar plugged in) with reamping. But the strange thing is that if the DI you recorded the guitars with didn't have high enough input impedance, you would lose the high frequencies, and make the sound muddy - not the other way around :zombie:

Try messing around with the reamp box settings, especially if it has any EQ or such in it. Also, make sure you recorded the DI tracks properly, and not with some weird settings by accident.

 

[alexrookie]

i have the same problem with the x-amp.
tried everything i could do to fix the signal drop, but nothing really helped.
my di tracks are recorded well, my connection is right, everything sounds fine but i have a bit less signal compared to a direct plugged guitar.

my solution for the problem was buying a booster and i ended up with two of these, one for every output, for driving two amps simultanously:


http://www.thomann.de/gb/mxr_micro_amp_m133.htm


works like a charm, no hum, no extra noise, just the amount of gain i want to have + some extra gain for old amps like my jcm800.

a ts has some extragain ,as well - but i don't want to have the ts sound for every project.

hope this helps!

best,

alex

 

[deLuther]

What level have guitar signal at output? I record at around -3db (in DAW scale) or bust signal to this level (no clipping). With that level I have good results with Radial ProRMP.
But I also got insufficient level at first time.

 

[everybody's x]

why not normalize the files to 0db then attenuate it from the DAW until it hits the correct level?

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Are you guys sure you're outputting a mono track? Not through your DAW, but through your converter's hardware? With the RME Fireface 800 anyway, all I have to do is make sure it's panned 100% to one side with the FF's mixer. You might want to check that.

 

[everybody's x]

Are you guys sure you're outputting a mono track? Not through your DAW, but through your converter's hardware? With the RME Fireface 800 anyway, all I have to do is make sure it's panned 100% to one side with the FF's mixer. You might want to check that.

ooh, good catch

that would make it 6dbs down wouldn't it?

 

[alexrookie]

i explained my problem with reamping in another thread a while ago and i'm quite sure, that my signal chain is right.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/316251-reamping-issues-questions-again.html

even when my direct guitar was finalized and my converters mixer was at 0 dB and the output of the converter was switched to +4 dB, the amp had a bit less gain compared to a plugged guitar.
i get the feeling that the output of the x-amp is a bit less than a real guitar, could this be the case?

i'm routing a mono track panned hard left or right to a pair of outputs, cause there is no other way with the m-audio delta hardware/software.

are you guys always using a tubescreamer in front of the amp?
maybe the signal drop is not that obvious with a ts?

i fixed my reamping issue with the microamp, but i'm still a bit frustrated that i have to do this extra step to recreate an authentic guitar with reamping.

btw, i'm still open-minded about some other suggestions for fixing the problem with signal drop.

cheers,

alex

 

[deLuther]

My ProRMP drops signal level a bit (in loopback test), I cannot remember exact value.
But if output is close to 0 db (normalized or recorded at this level) then I don`t need any boost in front of my amp even if trim pot at default position so output is trimmed a bit.

 

[Lige]

Thanx for all the inputs...really appreciate it.

Torniojaws, you mention my DI input might not have a high enough input impedance. I have compared it to my other soundcard which is a E-MU 0404, and the quality difference is obvious. My Metric Halo sounds more defined and warm (and 10 times more expensive : )...but do I need a dedicated DI box?...thought the DI inputs on the metric halo would be good enough.

Oznimbus, I am sending the recorded mono track in Logic to a mono bus track and then further to the Metric Halo ULN-2 mixer, it cant be panned in ULN-2 mixer, but is panned hard left in Logic both on the mono track on which I record and on the mono bus I am sending it to, is that the right approach?

I cant figure out if it is my recordings or the way I send out the signal that is the problem. I forgot to tell in my first post, that another way to describe the sound is, when I, as an example, record an open chord followed by a closed and play it through DAW->X-AMP->B-52, it sounds a bit like using amplitube or another plugin, you know clinical and quite staccato, like someone is sucking up my tone..but maybe all I need is just a booster like alexrookie explained, I would just think that buying an X-AMP would be enough!..?
thanx...

 

[alexrookie]

hey lige,


just want to make clear, that my first reamping tests without the microamp didn't sound that false or synthetic, or some kind of really wrong.
it was a real sounding guitar with just a bit less gain and maybe a tiny tad less in highs.

so, if you're guitar is sounding quite different than your direct guitar, the booster won't help you very much.

your comparison to the amplitube made me wonder!!!

 

[Torniojaws]

Torniojaws, you mention my DI input might not have a high enough input impedance. I have compared it to my other soundcard which is a E-MU 0404, and the quality difference is obvious. My Metric Halo sounds more defined and warm (and 10 times more expensive : )...but do I need a dedicated DI box?...thought the DI inputs on the metric halo would be good enough.

Yes, you can use whatever sounds good. There's no law But usually the DIs in interfaces aren't as good as dedicated devices, but it's all a matter of taste.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Any luck?

 

[Katau]

The instructions on the Radial Pro RMP say that you need to do a test before reamping. This text may also be in the X-Amp manual. Anyway, it basically states to set your amp to a clean channel and reamp the signal thru it. Then switch to using your guitar to match the level coming out of your amp. Go back and forth until the clean level from your amp is the same for both the X-Amp and your guitar. The level can be dialed in with your X-Amp box...there should be a level control. Voila...proper levels.

This is due to the fact that amps do not have a line meter on them. So, I suppose if you get a meter in there somewhere, that would be another way to do this. Good luck.

 

[natasinfected]

I have the same problem as you Lige, as I stated in the Reamp sticky thread. I have to check the +4db and the mono output stuff as Oz stated, so I will write back later.

 

[ApolloSpeed]

I get a some noise with mine too.....but I'm using Firepod DI, and an Art DI box for reamping, but I finally bought a Mogami balanced cable.....I'm hoping it will help my results a little bit.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Never thought to normalize to 0db...thanks X

 

[alexrookie]

The instructions on the Radial Pro RMP say that you need to do a test before reamping. This text may also be in the X-Amp manual. Anyway, it basically states to set your amp to a clean channel and reamp the signal thru it. Then switch to using your guitar to match the level coming out of your amp. Go back and forth until the clean level from your amp is the same for both the X-Amp and your guitar. The level can be dialed in with your X-Amp box...there should be a level control. Voila...proper levels.

This is due to the fact that amps do not have a line meter on them. So, I suppose if you get a meter in there somewhere, that would be another way to do this. Good luck.

the x-amp has this level control - downwards!!
mine is completely open and still i have this signal drop.

i think oz mentioned some time ago, that his one is fully open, as well.
i still believe, the x-amp is some kind of a 'levelsucker', not tone changing, just the level. at least mine is one.

 

[natasinfected]

The MONO TRACK OUTPUT and the +4db worked for me pretty cool! Thanks Oz, you rock!

You should be getting about 90 - 95 % of the original tone (guitar plugged in) with reamping.

I'm wondering if this is a rule for reamping or if it depends on the setup... As I said, the trick worked for me, but I'm pretty sure that the 5-10% loss applied after that.

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

Same experience here with my X-Amp back in April 2007... had big problems with level matching at first, was too low and sounded harsh, quite loud static noise too. Tried everything suggested on this forum back then, mono track output and all.
Then I found out that my DI signal was fucked when recording through my Digi001 preamps... it was kind of distorted although it wasn't clipping. So I packed my Countryman DI and went to the studio of some friends of mine who had some experience with reamping. I recorded a few test DI tracks through their Focusrite Saffire interface. Sounded much better when reamped with less noise, so I bought a Saffire to replace my Digi001... but there's still a little bit of level loss when going into the X-Amp straight from the DAW. Same as alexrookie is describing.

You need a line level booster of some sort to put in front of the X-Amp. The guys at the studio just use their mixing desk for output, so they never even knew about the signal loss, since they adjusted the level on the desk. They could actually boost the signal pretty well too, with less noise on the amp than a real guitar signal going in.