Don't want to be a "bedroom warrior" anymore

Seriously man, hats off to you - I have a habit of coming off as a bit of a harsh and cynical bastard, but you managed to rationalize your points perfectly! While we might have somewhat differing views on the subject, I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I'd imagine the opposing opinions give the OP quite a bit to think through and consider :)

Haha, thanks man!

Honestly this forum has the coolest members of any board of which I have posted.
 
Thank you guys. The conversation carried itself and you've all hit points that have been going through my head- even Grumbly101.

I'm currently taking general ed classes and telling everyone and myself that I'm "majoring in Pharmacology" so the cost in tuition isn't that expensive at all- I always thought medicine's effects on the human body was very interesting, but that is a course quite a ways down the road. I feel that amount of interest and knowing the stability behind a job in the medical field would be enough to keep me motivated to head in that direction...

Engineering, on the other hand, had just been way more inspiring than anything I've ever felt in my entire life. It's every day, all day. Anything article/audio/video related just eases my mind when I've had a bad day or anything like that. It can also be the cause of stress when I realize it's been 3-4 months since I've recorded anyone aside from myself.

So I'm early in on the life situations- I don't have much responsibility if anything at all... But that time is coming to an end and I feel as though it will be time to decide and commit to one thing. My father is self employed, and doesn't do well because of many things that come along with it. It's kind of scared me off from the idea, although I've had fun making the website and vista print cards and note for finances and stuff for my recording thing- but I feel that as soon as it turns into a dependency for stability, it's over- because I know I won't be happy living like that.

Another engineer I spoke to does sound at a casino for his main source of income- he may be shutting down his studio because he simply doesn't pull enough business. It's shitty- he's told me himself. He's got a wife and baby on the way and he may just have to drop it altogether. I don't know- just seems like they reached the point of no return.

I believe a setup similar to what Ryan @ Catharsis is doing would be possible for me to do- it's just finding the right people to live with. And I'd be happy coming home from work to something like that- with two or three of may days off booked with some band that I'd be able to just toss in a jar for a new piece of gear. I'd spend vacation time doing the same- I wouldn't mind that.

It's getting to that point that has been the big challenge for me, which is terribly frustrating.
 
A bowl of fresh air? I guess you'd be able to have some for later as opposed to breathing it all in at once...
:lol:

Great thread! I can say I agree with almost everything Black.death said, except the "leave school" part, I would never advise to do that. On the rest though, I agree entirely, do what you WANT to do. Pharmacology actually interests you, and you feel you could enjoy working in that field? Awesome, go for it while keeping the studio whenever you can. I´m slowly building a portfolio, gaining knowledge and buying gear for my studio, in the meanwhile I really enjoy my day job as an English teacher, I´ve always liked teaching and I have a good work environment so I don´t hate my life for having a crappy job in a shitty company who doesn´t care if you live or die. I hope someday I´ll be able to concentrate fully on the studio, but for now, my plan B is my plan A hahaha
 
You could also start laundering money or selling drugs/weapons. I would guess that this sort of business would be an ideal front for that sort of thing, and it would keep you profitable until you went to jail for the rest of your life.

Edit: How do kill thread?
 
^ try "Avada Cadavera!"

anyway, i haven't followed the thread but it seems like anyone venturing into the AE world far enough will soon have to face the fact that he's risking not EVER having enough money to put a down-payment on a house but doing what he loves vs. studying some realistic shit like real-estate and have enough money as long as he does he's job, but maybe commit suicide a few years in it.

i'm not saying it's not possible to make a good living out of being an AE, i'm just saying it's much less likely.
 
Some one I thought was a good m8 told me the other day I am wasting my time trying to do this full time and I am dreaming for thinking I will make a living out of it. This coming from the same guy who wanted to be a rock star but did not have the commitment to try hard enough and now has so much debt he couldnt quit his day job even if he wanted to.
If I try and fail at least I can say I have tried. Besides I have WAY too much passion not to try. Those with the most passion wins...
 
Skill, a bit of luck, being a socially enjoyable person and having a solid business sense. Passion will give you fuck all unless you can turn it into profit. It's definitely required, but unless you have a ton of it, you shouldn't even entertain the idea of working in the business to begin with.
 
Well it is certainly tough out there. I think there is money to be had out there, but you have to be versatile and work it.

This year I really tried to step it up while still working a full time day job. I still didn't make a profit, but I made triple what I usually make.

The reality is that there is a lot more to being a recording engineer than putting out a great mix. There are deadlines, personalities, random weird problems, unusual convincing, gear failures, troubleshooting, etc. that you have to deal with. The worst are the guys that think they know recording and insist that you put the mic on their ass while playing since that is how their friend does it or scoff at my OC703 acoustic panels instead of egg crates. So you learn how to dance your way around, explain to them what you are doing, and fucking mic their ass and your ass, and do it right at the same time to appease them if all else fails.

Then somehow you want to be cool and be passionate about their farts into a mic and provide an efficient and inspiring environment and judge their personalities on the best motivator for good takes, etc.

But I digress....

I am hoping the trick this next year is to be versatile. Give guitar lessons. Talk to the local colleges and get interns (I am getting my second this spring!). Spreads the word and you practice teaching. Then open weekend classes and teach! Do repairs.

On the recording end, go to shows and hand out cards and brochures. Take on singer songwriters, hip-hop, tape transfers, spoken word, voice-overs, etc. But again, you have to be on your game for these. Or intern yourself to learn the game.

Then work it, connect connect connect. I stirred up a lot of business taking my field recorder to live shows (H4n) and taking a mix from the board and using the mics. Then I would give the bands a free recording (with permission). Give them the raw tracks, and I would doctor up a mix for them. Gave me practice processing the two bus and used tricks like multi-band comp and brutal EQing, to send a "kick only" track to something like trigger, beefing up the kick and such. Even though the track was still pretty rough, you would be amazed at the response to even having it louder (ie. low pass and limiter baby!, plus the recorder sounds good)

Sort of douchy, but I didn't charge them, and they got a taste of my "skillz" hence deciding to record with me. If nothing else I met band members, made friends. I invite them over to jam, drink beers, record it, etc. Hoping it will pay off later on.

Oh yeah and selling rehearsal time has definitely helped keep the doors open as well and stir up business and awareness.

Then if you want to do it full time, you better be ready to make sacrifices. Even guys I know that started a business doing computer security (high market value) still couldn't make payments and lived on ramen for almost a year before the ball got rolling.

One thing to help lower costs at your studio is to live there. Look for "Artist work/live" type of stuff. Or a space in the warehouse district where the landlord sort of looks the other way about people living there.

I see things moving that way one way or another, and I think it will continue. Even if all you have is a mixing/dubbing room, you can still book studios for the full bands and drum kits. So you loose money there, but at least for me... drums take the shortest amount of time... guitars are the suck. All of which can be done in a much smaller space.
 
I did not say passion is ALL you need, of course skill is required I simply didnt mention that as I thought it went without saying... I said those with the most passion will be more likely to succeed in this industry. With passion comes the need to learn more and perfect your skills so it is fair to say that those with the most knowledge and 'skill' must also be the most passionate. You need both, aggreed.

Passion will give you fuck all

but unless you have a ton of it, you shouldn't even entertain the idea of working in the business to begin with.

did you just argue with me, then agree with me in the same sentence? :err:
 
Seriously man, hats off to you - I have a habit of coming off as a bit of a harsh and cynical bastard

Bustin' your ass running a studio and making records will do that to you. :)

Just as a side note, nearly everyone who "dreams" of recording for a living realize there are much easier dreams to chase once they've been in the trenches for awhile... Only those with heart and endurance will see it through. Never forget that.
 
I did not say passion is ALL you need, of course skill is required I simply didnt mention that as I thought it went without saying... I said those with the most passion will be more likely to succeed in this industry. With passion comes the need to learn more and perfect your skills so it is fair to say that those with the most knowledge and 'skill' must also be the most passionate. You need both, aggreed.





did you just argue with me, then agree with me in the same sentence? :err:

Nope. I meant passion is a prerequisite, not a bonus. All I'm trying to say here is that no matter how passionate you are about the profession, and no matter how hard you grip to following your dream, you need to be able to make the cash flow or you will sink. It's a way of life, but it's also a business, and a pretty tough one as well.
 
Also, if you want honesty-- If you're going to try and pursue this full time, expect to be fucked over once or twice.. And expect that bands will ALWAYS try to work out a deal with you.. Music industry is full of weasels, so be very careful.

Put it this way.. Last year, I spent the year building a clientele list, and not really focusing on the money side of things as much... Sure, I thought I was making decent money, but then at the end of the year, I looked into "___ still owes $___" and those numbers essentially added up to me NOT making over $3,500!!!! That's a decent amount of money, for all of the work put in.

What I'm getting at-- It's a bit frustrating, but if you have a head on your shoulders, and begin to understand how people/things work, it's a pretty rewarding line of work, as far as doing what you love goes!!
 
Also, if you want honesty-- If you're going to try and pursue this full time, expect to be fucked over once or twice.. And expect that bands will ALWAYS try to work out a deal with you.. Music industry is full of weasels, so be very careful.

Put it this way.. Last year, I spent the year building a clientele list, and not really focusing on the money side of things as much... Sure, I thought I was making decent money, but then at the end of the year, I looked into "___ still owes " and those numbers essentially added up to me NOT making over $3,500!!!! That's a decent amount of money, for all of the work put in.

What I'm getting at-- It's a bit frustrating, but if you have a head on your shoulders, and begin to understand how people/things work, it's a pretty rewarding line of work, as far as doing what you love goes!!

you've been working pro in this business unlike myself - but isn't that basically telling your clients it's ok not to pay what your work is worth? and if they consciously owe you money, aren't the chances that they won't be coming back for more services in fear of having to pay you their old debts?

getting fucked over once or twice is realistic, but i can't see how letting it go like that would help.