Double bass pedal Drummers: speed that slave pedal!

[Satori]

Hi guys,

I just felt like sharing something I discovered over the weekend while tinkering with my iron cobra double pedal.

I noticed that there are a lot of those screw nuts that are used to attach the slave pedal to the master via the connecting rod and shit, you know, the ones that look like screws with the square drum key fitting top. Anyway, there were 8 of them, so I took one from each spot (there were 2 in each of the 4 connecting points) and now there are only four on there. Four of these nuts is quite a bit of weight, put 4 in your hand and feel it, it's not light, definitely enough to make your slave pedal that much more sluggish. Anyway, I've noticed my slave pedal is more responsive now since I've done this (and my spings are fucking tight and I still notice a difference), I really didn't think it would make much of a difference but I was suprised by how much of an improvement it was.

Try it!

Satori

 

[Ecstatic Youth]

i think i'll tell that to my drummer friend with the double kick

 

[Russell]

I just got mine, and my slave pedal is verrryyyy sticky ATM..annoying... I'm gonna try and oil it or somthing to free it up

 

[Risedfromthedead]

I will!

When I can afford that damn pedal...
It`s so %#&%& expensive here in Sweden.

Do you have the "power glide" one?

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Risedfromthedead
I will!

When I can afford that damn pedal...
It`s so %#&%& expensive here in Sweden.

Do you have the "power glide" one?

I'm assuming power glide and flex glide refers to whether it's got a chain or a strap (?). Mine is the strap drive one, which I prefer, the pedal seems a little more "organic" when I do the single foot double stroke using the "heel - toe" technique. I've read that the strap drives are quicker cuz they are a little more springy, but I don't know about that from experience, just something I read.

They are expensive little things indeed, but once you have it you'll have it for the rest of your life so it's really more of a long term investment (or at least that's how I justified it to myself, hehe).

Satori

 

[Satori]

Oh yea, they have a Tama Iron Cobra Junior out now, it's looks pretty cool and I'm sure it's almost if not just as good at the original, for a few hundred bucks less money (or something like that). I saw one, it looks pretty descent.

The DW pedals are good but they are a fucking rip-off, I think you can get something just as good for like half the price (ie. the iron cobra jr.)

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by godisanathiest
I just got mine, and my slave pedal is verrryyyy sticky ATM..annoying... I'm gonna try and oil it or somthing to free it up

If it's a good pedal it's shouldn't be too sticky, obviously it's not going to be as responsive as the master pedal but it should be good enough to do quite a bit. Make sure your hat stand isn't touching it, when I first set mine up I was sure it wasn't touching the hat stand but it was - from the top, part of the hat stand was very slightly touching the slave pivot joint on the top and making it very sluggish.

Also try to reduce the angle of the slave pedal to the master, the more parallell they are the better cuz there's less of a bend in the connecting rod, which means less rotation at the joint, which means less friction.

I now have my springs set as tight as they will go, actually, tighter than that, there was a nut that sits on top of the sping screw adjustment (as well as one on the bottom which hold the screw in place). Anyway, I took the thing apart and took off the top bolt so that I could push the spring's screw down farther to add even more tension. I never thought I'd have it this tight, but as I used it more and more (I practice at least an hour a day) and my leg muscles got stronger and stronger I just kept adding tension to the pedal to keep up with the muscle development. I've read that the double bass thing has a whole lot to do with strengthening the muscles, particularly the slave leg. It's hard but rewarding. I've found that doing rudiments like doubles and paradiddles at various speeds really helps with the coordination. I've also developed a bit of a theory about speed: I think that beyond doing quarter notes at about 126 bmp you have to do it differently, more snapping of the ankle and less dropping of the leg. It's hard.

If anyone here has any ideas or tips on increasing speed please share what you've learned! I don't think I'll be satisfied until I can play along with Dimmu (maybe I'm setting the goal to high, heheh)

Satori

 

[Risedfromthedead]

Are you a leg kicker or foot kicker?
I mean do you use your whole leg when kickin or do you always have your whole foot on the pedal as I am?

I want to learn the foot kick technique beacause It should give more accuracy and better feel. Leg kickin is more powerful but I dont think it is better than the the other.

I got to have a double pedal!!!

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by Satori
If it's a good pedal it's shouldn't be too sticky, obviously it's not going to be as responsive as the master pedal but it should be good enough to do quite a bit.

Its a very good pedal I think Pearl, it was £180 so it better bloody be Yeah, its not too bad I suppose - probably cos my left leg is weaker...

I've been doind rudiments too and teaching myself to play heel up.. it takes a bloody long time

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Risedfromthedead
Are you a leg kicker or foot kicker?
I mean do you use your whole leg when kickin or do you always have your whole foot on the pedal as I am?

I always play heel up, even when not playing with both pedals. I find heel up is harder but better in a lot of ways. It's totally a matter of preference however. Some people say that heel up is the only way to become extremely fast, and since most of the best players play heel up I've went with that. It seems to be working out fine. I played heel down for the longest time but since I've gotten the double pedal I've changed that.

The way I see it (the way my body seems to function) is that for slower playing up to 126 bmp quarter notes I use my leg more, beyond that i have to use most just my ankle with less movement of the leg. It's hard. I find it helps if your seat isn't too low and you sit back on the throne a bit to rest some of the weight of your legs on the seat. I used to sit on the edge of the seat but not any more.

I want to learn the foot kick technique beacause It should give more accuracy and better feel. Leg kickin is more powerful but I dont think it is better than the the other.

I think the opposite, I think that the average person could do more by playing heel up. It's harder but once you get used to it it requires less effort and really increases endurance. Besides, it's really hard to do a double stroke with the heel down and it tires you out fast. I've read that many of the really skilled players play both ways, depending on what they are doing, but when it comes to metal where speed and endurance is important, almost all of them play heel up all the time. If you ever decide to try it, remember to press the top part of your foot on the pedal's sweet spot, which is about at that mid point of the foot board.

I got to have a double pedal!!!

Do you live in Toronto by any chance? I have an old crappy one which needs a new home, but it works ok, right now it's just sitting in my closet. If you want it, it's yours.

Satori

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by Satori
Hi guys,

I just felt like sharing something I discovered over the weekend while tinkering with my iron cobra double pedal.

I noticed that there are a lot of those screw nuts that are used to attach the slave pedal to the master via the connecting rod and shit, you know, the ones that look like screws with the square drum key fitting top. Anyway, there were 8 of them, so I took one from each spot (there were 2 in each of the 4 connecting points) and now there are only four on there. Four of these nuts is quite a bit of weight, put 4 in your hand and feel it, it's not light, definitely enough to make your slave pedal that much more sluggish. Anyway, I've noticed my slave pedal is more responsive now since I've done this (and my spings are fucking tight and I still notice a difference), I really didn't think it would make much of a difference but I was suprised by how much of an improvement it was.

Try it!

Satori

Ive seen that. My drumer also has an Iron cobra, and i noticed that the slave ( on the left ) was getting my feet tired quickly when i used it. So i told my drummer to compensate, by putting the slave hammer closer so it would hit earlier therefore making it more soft without sacrificing tension. At first he loved this idea and say it was very comfortable, and he hasnt mentioned since but i noticed he is developing a weird position when playing when his fet are not facing directly to the front, he is a little twisted when playing and when i sit down i noticed how this twist kinda puts the left feet closer to the body, i guess this has to do with this cause the compensation thing should be enough. Ill say something to him tomorrow about this screw things, cause bad posture could cause him a lot of back problems

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
Ive seen that. My drumer also has an Iron cobra, and i noticed that the slave ( on the left ) was getting my feet tired quickly when i used it. So i told my drummer to compensate, by putting the slave hammer closer so it would hit earlier therefore making it more soft without sacrificing tension. At first he loved this idea and say it was very comfortable, and he hasnt mentioned since but i noticed he is developing a weird position when playing when his fet are not facing directly to the front, he is a little twisted when playing and when i sit down i noticed how this twist kinda puts the left feet closer to the body, i guess this has to do with this cause the compensation thing should be enough. Ill say something to him tomorrow about this screw things, cause bad posture could cause him a lot of back problems

Yea, it will totally fuck up his back. Tell him he has to try to stay symmetrical. I find that using a Pilates technique (which is a sort of yoga) for supporting the back works well, basically you tighten your ab muscles and push the pelvis forward, sorta like when you are fucking some chick when you are on top, you don't move your whole body forward, you just sorta push forward with your hips only.. anyway, that's the motion, except you just push forward a tiny bit, it takes all the pressure off the lower back.

I noticed my iron cobra got a hell of a lot more responsive when I pivoted the slave pedal so that it was more parallell to the master pedal, reducing the amount of twisting at the connecting joints. Taking out those 4 extra screws helped a lot too. Also, on the pedal there's these metal clamp things on the beater shaft, at first I thought they were just clamps to keep the beater in position but they are for moving up or down the beater shaft to add more or less weight to the beater. If these clamps are all the way down (which is how it comes out of the box) the beater is very light, moving them up the shaft a little adds some weight and gives it a better punch and a more solid feel to the pedal and I think it made it easier to control cuz the beater is heavier. Maybe he knows about this already, if not tell him about it.

Satori

 

[Risedfromthedead]

(Sorry, dont know how to do a nice looking quote"

"Do you live in Toronto by any chance? I have an old crappy one which needs a new home, but it works ok, right now it's just sitting in my closet. If you want it, it's yours."

Oh...thanks! But I live in Sweden Im afraid...
The thing is that a Iron Cobra in the states costs about 270 dollars which is about 2700 kronor in Sweden.
Here, they want about 4500 kronor for the same double pedal(!) (about 450 dollars)

Its quite expensive here...

 

[FailingAcension]

About the heel up or heel down.....Its possible to be extremely fast and accurate both ways. Just preference. I have a Gibralter Prowler now. I'll have an AXIS X2 within next month.

 

[Staffan]

270 dollars for an Iron cobra!?

I'd better go visit the states!... the dollar is pretty low now actually... like 7.70 kronor.
That makes an Iron cobra cost like 2070 Kronor!

Anyway I've got a pretty cheap Ludwig. It is actually pretty good for the price (here)

 

[flawrence1]

Thanks for the advice...I have the same pedal on my roland set. You mentioned the weights on the beater shafts. Where do you put them, low? Mine are resting low now. I'll have to try the gimmick of taking off some of the mount shaft screws and see what happens. Also, what did you mean by adjusting the slave pedal to be more parallel to the other...more parallel in relation to the floor, or in relation to the other pedal as it usually is (say 30 degrees or so to the floor)?

As for speed, I read that you should raise the throne seat up a lot higher than usual so that your legs hang a little more, rest the balls of your feet about half way up the pedal, heels up, and use a combination of calf-jerking and ankle jerking to get the fastest speed. This does work best for me and increased my clean speed by about 50% over the last 4 years (advent openning speed, but not quite the leper affinity groove). My right foot can handle anything, but the left frustrates me and feels almost retarded in comparison.

 

[illbeleavinnow]

Isn't the slave pedal supposed to attach to the hi hat pedal so you can alternate between the two easier? THat's how Tama does it...

 

[Neurotomania]

never noticed any way to attach my slave to my hi hat. and by the way thats a bloody useless tip - the two sets of each locking nut are there to stop the crossbar rod from coming loose during some frantic live bass drum pounding.

 

[SculptedCold]

It's cool threads like these that ressurrect my sincerest wish to be a drummer. =( Damn to hell my crippling lack of natural co-ordination.