Drum editing questions...

joeymusicguy said:
i match my editing to the drummer

some examples



as far as sample editing goes (dynamics and what not), i use slate samples. i turn dynamic tracking off because there are dynamic samples supplied for you. so if i want a hard hit, i make sure there's a hard hit there. etc etc. try it sometime, you'll be surprised.
Click to expand...


I'm a little confused on how your doing this so let me try and ask this...

Now if dynamic tracking is turned off it would just play the hardest samples in drumagog? well unless random was on, and then it would be weired if you had more than one velocity sample, cause both would get played randomly.

So are you setting up a instance of drumagog for each.... hard, medium and light hits? Or am i totally an idiot and missing the big picture somewhere?

Myself i usually just leave dynamic tracking on and then mess with the level of the trigger signal if i want louder or softer sample played through drumagog.
 
Joshua Wickman said:
I'm a little confused on how your doing this so let me try and ask this...

Now if dynamic tracking is turned off it would just play the hardest samples in drumagog? well unless random was on, and then it would be weired if you had more than one velocity sample, cause both would get played randomly.

So are you setting up a instance of drumagog for each.... hard, medium and light hits? Or am i totally an idiot and missing the big picture somewhere?

Myself i usually just leave dynamic tracking on and then mess with the level of the trigger signal if i want louder or softer sample played through drumagog.
Click to expand...

I think what he means is he doesn't have his sample replacing plugin setup to vary the volume of it's output based on it's input. Like with apTrigga, even if I'm using 3 different samples (one for hard, one for medium and one for soft hits) there is still a dynamics knob that will make some hard hits louder than other hard hits depending on how hard the drummer hits the drum. I think what Joey is saying is that he wants all the samples to play at their original volume, so hard hits will still be louder than medium hits and the plugin will still catch it based on dynamics, but it won't change the volume of the hard hits to be louder or softer than one another based on the volume of the original hit in the "hard hit" volume range...
 
Anyone willing to take these super simple drum tracks that I recorded specifically to practice editing and edit them to be in time and post the result and explain what you did? Every time I try and chop it and quantize it it sounds like fucking GARBAGE. Tempo is 155 bpm, just some slow straight forward 4/4 beats with a couple of fills, nothing fancy.

http://www.ashesofthefallen.net/Drumedit test.rar
 
If the song is clicked, it is very easy in Logic to "quantize" the kicks.
I always work in short sections then strip silence to get a small separate region for each kick then open the event list window and quantize the regions to 8s or 16s depending. I would normally edit the kicks separate to the rest of the kit.
If snares are off in a blast I group the kit minus kicks then manually cut the tracks at each snare transient then using the event list again quantize to 8s or 16s then zoom in and time stretch the regions to fill any gaps then glue (merge) the tracks back together which automatically crossfades the regions.
These methods only work if the song is clicked and the drummer is reasonably tight with the click.
 
Here's just the first section as i'm up to my eyes in my own drum editing atm.
First i grouped all the tracks, transient split everything to the kick, then quantized everything to the kick (1/4 notes)
Glued everything
transient split everything on the snare, then quantized everything to the snare (1/2 notes)
glue everything
This track had very clear transients on the hats so i managed to transient split them. I transient split it using the left OH as it had the sharper transients, and then quantized to it as well. Just the overheads though.

That first section was very easy though as it had nothing at all fast or complex. Anything that's fast and considerably off the grid tends to need editing by hand, at least in reaper as it stands atm

EDIT: woops forgot to post the link http://www.sendspace.com/file/zcmzre
 
I own up, after trying to sound knowledgeable i've realised that reaper really is not the tool for the job (Or i'm just too much of a tool to get it right). All my attempts at using the split to transient and quantize have failed to produce results i'm happy with. I say this is reapers main failing, and i hope that a new version will have better tools for this soon.

However, a combination of the automatic and by hand, with tracks with minimal bleed and preferably using some sample replacement, the reaper tools can produce good results. But my god does it take a lot of time.
 
It's not about the tools. The performance is unacceptable. If I were to record something like this, I would throw bricks at the drummer and tell him to get the fuck out. Sorry if it sounds harsh.
 
mmhmm yeah the performance is so poor it does make it very hard to edit, but it could be done by hand. Or with some different tools, for instance i could produce an ok edit of that first section if reaper had a function that applied cuts in one track to other tracks AFTER the original cuts have been made.
 
I guess for some reason I always thought we had the capabilities to fix stuff like that... You hear so many performances on albums these days that are CLEARLY not human that I thought fixing a little 4/4 beat would be a piece of cake compared to something like the new Neuraxis album (drummer cannot and will not ever be able to play that stuff, they play everything infinitely slower live and the dudes double bass is a complete mess) or the Ignominious Incarceration album that Scott Atkins just did. Why is it that we talk about fixing performances and making it sound like the band can play something they really can't if in fact the recorded tracks have to be damn near perfect to begin with for us to be able to edit them?
 
those drum tracks you posted could easily be fixed, but not with reaper as it stands. I'm sure someone with protools would be able to get it done reasonably quickly, Reaper needs a beat detective clone (or something even better:heh:) so badly
 
F0RBIDDEN said:
I think what he means is he doesn't have his sample replacing plugin setup to vary the volume of it's output based on it's input. Like with apTrigga, even if I'm using 3 different samples (one for hard, one for medium and one for soft hits) there is still a dynamics knob that will make some hard hits louder than other hard hits depending on how hard the drummer hits the drum. I think what Joey is saying is that he wants all the samples to play at their original volume, so hard hits will still be louder than medium hits and the plugin will still catch it based on dynamics, but it won't change the volume of the hard hits to be louder or softer than one another based on the volume of the original hit in the "hard hit" volume range...
Click to expand...

bingo!
 
I use drumtracker I comvert most of the part to a Midi and fix the tempos in midi then I replace it I don`t know if it correct Just I share what works with my job cheers for all.:loco:
 
Fragle said:
great thread :)

one more question guys.....what do you think about recording shells and cymbals in different takes? in theory this would make quantizing the kick/snare/whatever hits a breeze as your cymbal hits are a completely different deal, but then again, what about the lack of mainly snare "ambience" in the OHs? would it eventually result in a dead sound?
Click to expand...

This is what I do most of the time. I just have room samples of the drums in addition to a reverb on everything but the kick (and sometimes the kick too depending on the style)

It works out quite nicely especially when you have a drummer that just can't quite nail it. They hate you at first for it though haha.
 
This drum file isn't really hard at all to edit in Pro Tools. Sure the performance isn't the best but it is not bad enough that I can't make it work.
 
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