Drumagog/aptrigga and blastbeats... save me!

[Black neon bob]

Okay, doing a promo now, it's not really recorded like any mix engineer would want it to be and it's causing more trouble then it's worth... however, i did say yes and i have to finish what i started.

my problem:

Most of you engineers have been at this stage before no? check out the pic and it shows you the horrors of the feared blastbeats..

Now, like it says in the pic.. drumagog works fine on that part where the snare hits once per second or so.. so i set up drumagog's sensitivity to a level where it will only detect the snare hit, seeing how there is quite a lot of kick and overhead bleed in the snare mic.

It works.. Eureka! hooray, bless drumagog and all that shit.

Then the blastbeat kicks in.. so im thinking, if i just up the volume of the snare hits to the same level as on the easier going parts, i would be there right? ... i was wrong.. all i get then is a really loud snare hit on where the snare is supposed to be softer, like all normal blast beats are... it then sounds unnatural.

But if i lower the sensitivity again, i get all that bleed that get's sampled!

Now, i tried to gate the snare and get rid of the bleed of the kick and the OH, but i still end up with the same problem.

What are my options here lads? i have always worked this way and most of the times it works fine.. most drummers who were recorded actually hit the snare with a decent velocity in blastbeats, that it's do-able and pretty easy to work with...

Help, as always, is MUCH appreciated!

 

[nwright]

raise the volume of that blastbeat parts - split the waveform and raise the volume of that section of waveform - you'll actually see it the waveform graphic get larger. You probably already know that, so sorry to insult your intelligence. Anyway, I'd up that to get the triger and automate the volume to drop a little to return it to a natural lower level.

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah you'll have to get in there and get messy manually. What I would do is throw a gate on that track that can output a midi signal when the gate opens (ReaGate does this in Reaper) and record that midi to another track. Then just go into that track and draw in or delete midi notes until it matches what the drummer was trying to play, and trigger Drumagog from that track instead of the audio.

 

[matt youwin]

You could also try duplicating the track then using EQ to remove/minimize the kick and to boost the snare frequencies, creating seperation and minimizing bleed. Use the duplicated track to trigger drumagog

Also, if you can afford a trigger setup then that would make it a bunch easier for next time.

 

[Ermz]

What gets me through 95% of the time is automating drumagog's 'Sensitivity' and 'Resolution' settings. If that fails, you have to get in there manually, cut all the kicks out of the track, or find a way to get your gate to only let the snares through, which will make Drumagog's job easier.

 

[DestroyTheColossus]

I just got done recording a drummer who played incredibly hard on single hits and very soft on everything else. If i brought down the sensitivity, it would trigger double hits on single hard hits, and if I changed the resolution, it wouldnt trigger all of the faster parts. What I ended up doing was creating a new track and moving the parts that wouldnt trigger properly onto that one and triggering them separately. So all the hard hits would be triggered on one track and all the blast beats and fills triggered on a different one. Then you can adjust the volume to taste to get a realistically quieter blast/ fill volume.

 

[everybody's x]

I say we just start killing drummers who play blast beats.

If you don't want to do that, try applying a moderate level of magneto to level it out.

 

[Black neon bob]

Aaah cool info so far guys... cheers!

I have read a few options so far, i will try them all and see what suits me best... but i think we can all agree that one can never get paid too much for manually editing drums!!

 

[coldthrn]

Yeah you'll have to get in there and get messy manually. What I would do is throw a gate on that track that can output a midi signal when the gate opens (ReaGate does this in Reaper) and record that midi to another track. Then just go into that track and draw in or delete midi notes until it matches what the drummer was trying to play, and trigger Drumagog from that track instead of the audio.

+1 I've done this several times. Even though its a pain in the ass it works. However I dont use a gate. I cut all freq except for the snare attack to make it easyer on drumagog. Next have drumagog pipe out a midi signal to a track for all hits, then manually change the velocities in the midi track and pipe that to battery.

 

[agentmetal]

One more idea... I don't know which version of Drumagog you're using, but mine has an internal filter that can be used, if needed, to feed the triggering engine. In other terms, Drumagog won't be listening to the whole track, but only to its low- or high-end or to some frequency range, exactly like with internal sidechaining...
If you set this filter to bandpass mode, and adjust frequency and Q so that enough kick and hats are rejected, maybe it would help ?
Just beware not to choose a Q that's too narrow, otherwise you might end up with only the snare's resonant frequencies, which often lack of attack for triggering...

Anyway I guess you'll have to use some kind of automation at one step or another - either to fix volumes after triggering, or to adjust sensivity dynamically. Unfortunately that's quite unavoidable with blastbeats from my experience...

 

[colonel kurtz]

it might be possible to trigger properly without splitting and automating tracks, or any other crazy tricks...

first, pull the sensitivity down almost all the way during the blastbeat part and set the resolution to 32ms...set the sensitivity just high enough so that you don't get false triggers

then go under the samples tab, and make sure there's at least 4 velocity groups set up in the .gog, if not more

then click "groups" under the .gog file name, and pull groups 1 and 2 down so that they trigger during the blastbeats...set 3-4 and whatever else higher so that they don't trigger at all here

then head to a section before/after the blastbeat, and set layers 3-4 to properly trigger on a harder snare hit

 

[AudioGeekZine]

so next time you might want to rethink your miking technique. try the beater side since you're going to replace the kick with samples anyway.

To salvage the recording you've got now, use a bell eq with hi q to make the attack of the beater extreme, use filters to get rid of all other bleed. bounce this to a new track and run Drumagog on that track.

 

[Black neon bob]

Cheeeers guys!

so next time you might want to rethink your miking technique. try the beater side since you're going to replace the kick with samples anyway.

To salvage the recording you've got now, use a bell eq with hi q to make the attack of the beater extreme, use filters to get rid of all other bleed. bounce this to a new track and run Drumagog on that track.

Great idea man.. if only i could have done something about the recording.. fact is that i had nothing to do with it, and most bands contact me when everything is recorded.
I'll be sure to have some kind of influence before everything is recorded next time!

cheers.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

The last session I did was a miracle. I inserted drumagog and instantly all the snares and kicks were picked up perfectly, even the blast beats. I sware, didn't have to touch a damn thing. Wish it was always like that.

 

[Black neon bob]

The last session I did was a miracle. I inserted drumagog and instantly all the snares and kicks were picked up perfectly, even the blast beats. I sware, didn't have to touch a damn thing. Wish it was always like that.

I have had this with a band as well, death metal, lot's of blast beats and yet i had almost nothing to alter... i think that says a lot about the drummer no? steady drummer, steady hits and on every damn song.

Oh, btw.. does anyone know how the equalize the volume of a entire wav track in cubase/nuendo? i mean, just to get every hit in the same volume region without having to do it manually every hit?

cheers.

 

[ahjteam]

Also, if you can afford a trigger setup then that would make it a bunch easier for next time.

I saw that a kicktrigger was already used so you have to be really poor if you can't afford this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/ddrum_d1500.htm

Oh, btw.. does anyone know how the equalize the volume of a entire wav track in cubase/nuendo? i mean, just to get every hit in the same volume region without having to do it manually every hit?

You mean using a compressor/limiter? Because thats what it does.

 

[Black neon bob]

You mean using a compressor/limiter? Because thats what it does.

Well, i mean directly without a plugin.. changing the actual WAV file directly.

 

[ahjteam]

Well, i mean directly without a plugin.. changing the actual WAV file directly.

Why would you want to do it the destructive way? Why cant you just cut the part with scissors and put it to a new track and apply the compressor there for example?

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Why would you want to do it the destructive way? Why cant you just cut the part with scissors and put it to a new track and apply the compressor there for example?

duplicate the track or if in Pro Tools a new playlist. Then do whatever you want to it, you can always go back.

even if you did FUBAR it, nothing is really destructive about digital editing.

The program should warn you if the original file is being altered as well as giving you the option of creating a new file.

I still think the bandpass with peaking filter will work to get the sharp triggers needed to drumagog.

 

[everybody's x]

I have had this with a band as well, death metal, lot's of blast beats and yet i had almost nothing to alter... i think that says a lot about the drummer no? steady drummer, steady hits and on every damn song.

Oh, btw.. does anyone know how the equalize the volume of a entire wav track in cubase/nuendo? i mean, just to get every hit in the same volume region without having to do it manually every hit?

cheers.

magneto