Egypt

well, i'm haven't studied the details touroughly but from what i understand the "muslem brothers" of whoever it is that's trying take control instead of Mubarak are iran supporters which is not good for anyone...
that's what i got from the news but i'm not 100% sure of it...
i used the term "subtle dictatorship" because while bieng a ruthless tyrent to his own people, Mubarak was very passive and would never act against another nation... such as israel... while if an iran supporting regime will rise, democratic as it may be, it can lead to a real shit-storm.

if no iran supporting government will rise from this than i'm all for democracy of course
 
Arsenu said:
well, i'm haven't studied the details touroughly but from what i understand the "muslem brothers" of whoever it is that's trying take control instead of Mubarak are iran supporters which is not good for anyone...
that's what i got from the news but i'm not 100% sure of it...
i used the term "subtle dictatorship" because while bieng a ruthless tyrent to his own people, Mubarak was very passive and would never act against another nation... such as israel... while if an iran supporting regime will rise, democratic as it may be, it can lead to a real shit-storm.

if no iran supporting government will rise from this than i'm all for democracy of course
Click to expand...

From what I've read, especially posts from Egyptians who are currently fighting, the revolution is largely not religious. In fact, in an unprecedented move, Christians and Muslims have banded together to stop Mubarak, despite ideological differences. The Muslim Brotherhood is also split about 50/50 between old-timers who tend to have a more fundamentalist ideology and the new members who are much, much less radical. Nonetheless, the revolution is not being led by the Brotherhood.

Overall I think the revolution is a good thing.
 
Yes, and for the record, I was talking about the countries in conflict right now. To my knowledge, none of them is driven by religious leaders. This is mostly the opposite as it was started from the internet social networks which are turned off there by mubarak now. The youth started to know more and set the fire but this is coming from many years back for many reasons.

Let's see what happens till Friday, they gave him the ultimatum to leave and then the disturbs started. As always lately, the army has the last word there.
 
Arsenu said:
well, i'm haven't studied the details touroughly but from what i understand the "muslem brothers" of whoever it is that's trying take control instead of Mubarak are iran supporters which is not good for anyone...
that's what i got from the news but i'm not 100% sure of it...
i used the term "subtle dictatorship" because while bieng a ruthless tyrent to his own people, Mubarak was very passive and would never act against another nation... such as israel... while if an iran supporting regime will rise, democratic as it may be, it can lead to a real shit-storm.

if no iran supporting government will rise from this than i'm all for democracy of course
Click to expand...

Of course, I guess all the extreme religious are eager to see if they can do anything but they have always been a minority there FWIK. And I understand the subtle dictatorship, it's true, but let's have faith in a change for good. They are tired of that, they are asking for democracy it seems.

edit: just got this from Avaaz:

Wow - almost half a million have signed, Al Jazeera is broadcasting our numbers into Egypt, and the people are standing firm! Click below to sign, forward the email, call our governments, or donate to break the internet blackout, and more - let's keep up the pressure and get to 1 million!

Dear friends,


Millions of brave Egyptians are right now facing a fateful choice. Thousands have been jailed, injured or killed in the last few days. But if they press on in peaceful protest, they could end decades of tyranny.

The protesters have appealed for international solidarity, but the dictatorship knows the power of unity at a time like this – they’ve desperately tried to cut Egyptians off from the world and each other by completely shutting down the internet and mobile networks.

Satellite and radio networks can still break through the regime blackout -- let’s flood those airwaves with a massive cry of solidarity showing Egyptians that we stand with them, and that we’ll hold our governments accountable to stand with them too. The situation is at a tipping point -- every hour counts -- click below to sign the solidarity message, and forward this email:



https://secure.avaaz.org/en/democracy_for_egypt/?vl


People power is sweeping the Middle East. In days, peaceful protesters brought down Tunisia’s 30-year dictatorship. Now the protests are spreading to Egypt, Yemen, Jordan and beyond. This could be the Arab world's Berlin Wall moment. If tyranny falls in Egypt, a tidal wave of democracy could sweep the entire region.

Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak has tried to crush the rallies. But with incredible bravery and determination, the protesters keep coming.

There are moments when history is written not by the powerful, but by people. This is one of them. The actions of ordinary Egyptians in the coming hours will have a massive effect on their country, the region, and our world. Let’s cheer them on with our own pledge to stand with them in their struggle:



https://secure.avaaz.org/en/democracy_for_egypt/?vl



Mubarak’s family has left the country, but last night he ordered the military into the streets. He’s ominously promised 0 tolerance for what he calls ‘chaos’. Either way, history will be made in the next few days. Let’s make this the moment that shows every dictator on our planet that they cannot stand long against the courage of people united.

With hope and admiration for the Egyptian people,
Ricken, Rewan, Ben, Graziela, Alice, Kien and the rest of the Avaaz team

More Information:

Egypt unrest: Alert as mass protests loom
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12303564

Egyptian government shuts down the Internet
http://www.renesys.com/blog/2011/01/egypt-leaves-the-internet.shtml

North Africa: Will dominoes fall in the region?
http://allafrica.com/stories/201101280659.html

'Beginning of the end' for Egypt's Mubarak as son and wife flee
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/105...-for-egypt-s-mubarak-as-son-and-wife-flee.htm

Amnesty International condemns the crackdown on demonstrations
http://amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/egypt-must-stop-crackdown-protesters-2011-01-26

Regular updates are being posted by Egyptian activists here:
http://www.elshaheeed.co.uk

ACCESS campaign for digital freedom in Egypt:
https://www.accessnow.org/page/s/help-egypt
 
well i hope your'e right, man!
maybe the media here tends to be more dramatic and negative....

eventually only time will tell
anyway, power to the people! as they say...
 
Arsenu... it's really simple. Mubarak has been in power for 30 years and been a dictator the whole time. The people are sick of it. Nothing religious about it, they are just tired of him. There's no "hope you're right"... that IS the case, in a nutshell.
 
Blair said that there should not be a rush to elections in Egypt:

"I don't think there's a majority for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. On the other hand, what you've got to watch is that they are extremely well-organised and well-funded whereas those people who are out on the street at the moment, many of them will be extremely well-intentioned people but they're not organised in political parties yet. So one of the issues in the transition is to give time for those political parties to get themselves properly organised," he said.

Blair said he did not doubt that change was coming to Egypt.

"People want a different system of government. They're going to get it. The question is what emerges from that. In particular I think the key challenge for us is how do we help partner this process of change and help manage it in such a way that what comes out of it is open minded, fair, democratic government," he said.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/02/tony-blair-mubarak-courageous-force-for-good-egypt
 
props to egypt, and all the other nations in the middle east that are rising up against their oppressive dictatorships in favor of government that is based on democratic principles

what's most amazing is that the egyptian uprising was fueled by the events in tunisia, which were inspired by a man who lit himself on fire because the government took away the cart he used for selling fruit. to anyone who ever claims that one person can't make a difference in the world, you can forever use this card to call BULLSHIT

also, the way i see it, even if nations like egypt and jordan end up being governed by muslim principles, it's no different than the USA being governed mainly by christian principles. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a representative government is going to mostly take the form of whatever demographic is in the majority...

lastly, i hope that the US government and military are taking note, and realizing that democracy is something that can't be forced upon anyone...we've spent countless amounts of resources trying to force this same change upon the people of iraq and afghanistan over the last decade, and now their neighbors in the region are forcing the same change by themselves. while it's sad to see any amount of rioting and bloodshed, the destruction in cairo surely pares in comparison to baghdad...
 
colonel kurtz said:
what's most amazing is that the egyptian uprising was fueled by the events in tunisia, which were inspired by a man who lit himself on fire because the government took away the cart he used for selling fruit. to anyone who ever claims that one person can't make a difference in the world, you can forever use this card to call BULLSHIT
Click to expand...

One person can be a crucial link in a chain of events, but very rarely are they an irreplaceable one. If it hadn't been him it would have been someone else, maybe doing something different but to a similar effect, it's not as if he was only one pissed off!
 
John_C said:
One person can be a crucial link in a chain of events, but very rarely are they an irreplaceable one. If it hadn't been him it would have been someone else, maybe doing something different but to a similar effect, it's not as if he was only one pissed off!
Click to expand...

all in all, he might have been anyone but still that's fucking heavy metal man....
 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w&lc=NE2DNK6gD4XRIfz8dLGTVTde1gyf85mUjfYI1Db5Aug&lcf=cs&skipcontrinter=1[/ame]
 
Got a little bit of a laugh out of this.

My dad came into the room saying "Egypt broke out into riots." And I was fuckin' mystified (at first) cause Egypt is the name of my fuckin' dog!

You can imagine my pleasure :)
 
Shit. Sucks to say, but I saw something like that coming. He isn't going to give up his power. He's fucking insane, for one. Someone who has power that long isn't going to ever give it up. Not until he dies, even then he will want to appoint a successor himself when he realizes it's his time to go. What a douche.
 
hopefully for egypt the military can manage to implement the changes they're promising and hold transparent elections as is being claimed

as great as i feel for them for what they've achieved thus far, it seems like there's definitely potential right now for a military dictatorship to take hold and leave them as bad or worse off than before
 
I've lived in the Arab world for more than half of my life, and all I got to say is, this has been a long time coming. Good on them, lots of other places deserve this too, maybe even some western "democracies", at least a decent purge of the kleptocratic sycophants that hijack the governments through the cash of their campaign supporters.

And Tony Blair is the last person on earth whose opinion on the Middle East I'd give a rat's ass about.
 
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