evolution or no evolution

[Ze Dan]

Now following this misunderstanding about Dream Theater's new record,
I actually think we touched a point here :
we started to talk about Dream Theater's new record which is basically and obviously way different from what the band has done in the past. As we all seen, some people like it and some people don't.
This is leading me to a subject that may be interesting to discuss about (and I'll try to make it understandable for everybody, if it's not sorry, then I start to lose my english, sic) :

according to you, should a band evolve or should it keep on using the recipe which made him become succesful ? Bands like AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Malmsteen, Motorhead or Slayer to name a few never really quit their trademark style. And they have their followers and hard core fans through thick and thin and looking this way which is still working after 10,15,20 or 30 years they don't try to add some new elements to their music so they keep on going the same again and again.

So this brings me here :As a musician should I care about the fans' satisfaction or should I care about my own satisfaction (and then being selfish in a way). One of the best exemples is (once again, sorry) Dream Theater's 6 Degrees Of Inner Turbulence. When this cd was released, Mike Portnoy said : We arrived where we wanted to be musicwise. So this means his personal satisfaction was more important than the fans' one, and looking this way, this kind of thinking might explain then why the record has been bashed by some fans when it was released.

Some bands like Metallica, or Queensryche chose the path to go another way from the style they kinda created hence they took another musical direction and they said :" if we change, it's because we feel we have to. "
Consequence : here again some of their fans bashed them because some were expecting "Black Album #2“ or "Operation : Mindcrime #2 : The Return Of The Vengeance or I-Don't-Know-Why"

and this leads me to another point :
As a music listener, am I looking for something new or am I looking for the Images and Words' 783rd clone or Mindcrime 132nd copy… and most of all can I accept the fact the band has to evolve knowing I could bash it with other fans ?

Some bands took the risk of chosing another musical direction and they succeded in it : Queen, Rush, Marillion, Genesis, Enchant…*

so what do you think ? Enchant guys I really think your opinion might be very very interesting so can you please react to this ?

 

[Demonspell]

I always look for the challenge and surprise of evolution over the instant gratification of the familiar...

 

[The Wickerman]

Why do people keep saying that Iron Maiden's albums all sound the same? Do you really think "Dance of Death" sounds exactly like the debut?

 

[keeper of the flame]

Most bands progress over the years. I have no problem with that. I used to be a big Rolling Stones fan. In the 80s they want a completely different direction. I followed them but eventually I gave up.
Funny thing is that in the 90s they turned back to their 70s style.
A band should make music that inspires them, not just create an album for fans. If musicians go a completely opposite direction that is questionable, but if they change gradually to tread other grounds that is OK. Still I wonder sometimes what the drive for this could be. Do they just want to attract a bigger audience, in other words make more money out of it or do they want to follow a certain trend or is it really their own conviction because they like this new way they are going. Anyway, there are lots of reasons why a band can change. At the end of the day it is their decision and their right to do so. Fans don't ask a band what they should do or like. It's a free world in that respect.

 

[inflamer]

I'm all in favor of evolution ... IMO its better to evolve no matter what the risks are than to stay stucked in the same formula ... thats why i dont bash bands that take a new direction that i dont like, at least they had the guts to make something different

 

[lenroberto]

Ze Dan-

Great topic of discussion- going to buy the new DT at lunch so I will hold most of my judgement...

Stagnation in anything leads to boredom. I like when bands explore side streets- as long as they come back to their main highway. Bands like you mentioned do progress and evolve- but they somehow manage to keep a set of core musical signatures that can always be identified as that band. A band has to change to continue to be inspired and invested in what they are playing. If they don't "create" something new- then they are just rehashing what they already know they can do - going thru the motions- and the fans can eventually see that.

We love Enchant for many reasons- one of them is that they do branch off into interesting directions. But they keep close to the heart certain musical qualities that make them unique. Continuing our interest at the same time challenging themselves.

One more point- in a sense- no music is "original". Unless you never listen to any other music- an artist has to be influenced by what he is listening to. If you like something- chances are you will want to emulate parts of it at least.

I love DT too- but I am afraid I will not like this new album either. Celebrating bands you like by playing a whole album in concert seems cool at times- but it also makes me wonder...has their creative well run a little dry? Why rely so much on another band's style where it becomes your only focus? Are they losing their DT- ness?

If they want to head down a strictly metal path- they certainly can. But they have always walked a fine line- metal and prog...which one holds supremacy? I always liked them because within the framework of a rock song or even a heavy rock/ metal song- I can hear acoustic passages and piano diversions and keyboard experiments- that made it constantly interesting. All metal and no melody does not interest me...

OK I'm done rambling- great topic and discussion- nice to see such an interesting chat on this board and not a bash fest...

Len Roberto

 

[IL Beardfan]

I think I'm safe saying that one of the main reason we love this style of music by such bands as Enchant, SB and Neal, Marillion, Jadis, (I could go on and on) is their ability to express emotion or paint a picture musically. DT has shown that they too have the ability to do this when they want to. My only gripe with them is, that while they are probably one of the most technically gifted bands on the planet, they tend to like to display their talents just for the sake of showing off (I'm trying to politely say what I believe you Brits call "wanking" LOL). If all the shredding guitars and thunderous drums and wailing keys don't touch me in some way, then to me, it's all just a bunch of forgetful, annoying noise.

One of the DJ's at www.thedividingline.com is featuring Train of Thought tonight. I may have to stay up tonight and listen. BTW, this station plays TONS of Enchant music on their shows. If any of you are into interactive internet radio, this is a pretty cool place to hang out.

 

[DiscoDave]

I just want a good album. I don't really care if it's different or the same as what came before it.

 

[Ze Dan]

But what is the definition a good record ? There is no recipe for that. Drugs ? Alcohol ? There is no rule to make a good record !

As for me I think the point is whatever you chose to do - evolving or not evolving - you can't please everybody

 

[keeper of the flame]

As for me I think the point is whatever you chose to do - evolving or not evolving - you can't please everybody

Which reminds me of the words of a song that comes to my mind.

"You can't please everybody, so you gotta please yourself."

I really think that this is artistic freedom. The artist should create what he has in mind, what he wants to share, what he thinks is making him express himself.
Still I wonder if that is what always happens. Often records are about deals and sales figures as well. So another rule in this business is if your work it's not sold it's not shared.
You can however create great art regardless of anyone's opnion.
Think of how some great painters created art and were really appreciated after they died.

 

[DiscoDave]

But what is the definition a good record ? There is no recipe for that. Drugs ? Alcohol ? There is no rule to make a good record !

Exactly. I don't think evolving or not evolving is going to have any reliable impact on how good the end result will be. While it's true that Enchant would probably make a really crappy Country album, it's also true that if Enchant were start as a Country band and never try evolving, they'd never be the fantastic proggish-poppish band they are.

Who knows how many bands are out there sucking ass only because they haven't found what they're really good at?

 

[Alberik]

Well, for me personally, if the band's music doesn't evolve, it's bye-bye from my collection. That's what happened with DT and basically all metal music. I only have three albums of DEATH left. Progress for me is not double-bass drum attack and endless guitar shreddings. You ever listen to GONG? Now, that is progress and madness, and it is funny.

I have all the ENCHANT music because they really evolved and it is always a thrill to come back to any of the past album and rediscover something beautiful, enchanting. Shrek would say that their music is like onion, full of layers

Btw, I read that Spring 2004 will see the re-release of 'Break'. Will that be a double-album or at least a single disc with bonus tracks?!?

 

[ebass]

Where did you see the re-release news?

Doug would know better about this one?

 

[Wilma]

Hi Ed,

This was mentioned in the newsletter from InsideOut

"Enchant

After the release of 'A Blueprint Of The World' and 'Wounded' within the Special Edition Series of InsideOut last year, next year the album 'Break' will follow."

 

[mgirishfan]

Funkadelic - Another CD for my burgeoning collection, LOL! Bonus tracks? Bonus tracks? The 2004 release I'm looking forward to most though is that DVD!

 

[ebass]

Hello Wilma

Thanks

 

[DTArtstar]

A rerelease of Break would be awesome, especially if they're done the same way as Blueprint and Wounded with all the cool song info in them.

As for evolution, I respect bands that can actually progress and offer something new. I may not like it, but I can respect a musician's need to grow and try new things. Marillion are probably the only band I can think of that really does change with every new album and offer something completely different and experimental each time out. And they do all their new stuff live too which is VERY cool considering they're 12(13 almost!) albums into their career. I'm really happy with Spock's Beard too in the direction they went in with FE(seeing them tonight live in PA and Saturday in NJ too. WOOHOOO!!). Enchant evolved heavily especially between Time Lost and Break and I think it's just natural for a band to do that considering influences have almost certainly changed. Before they did a lot of clean arpeggiated guitar parts and their synth lines were very prominent, now they are more chuggish with heavy chords and synths are more down to aftereffects almost. And I respect that, Marillion went the same way really with their music. I'd like to see Enchant spread out more and do some more stuff in the vein of Hold The Wind, Comatose and possibly even go back to more epic song structures like Nighttime Sky and At Death's Door but updated soundwise.

Evolution is very important, otherwise you're just making the same album over and over again and people will catch on eventually.

 

[DiscoDave]

Sign me up for a special edition of Break. I'll just give my current copy away =).

 

[Ze Dan]

I think the biggest challenge is to not going back to musical roots. Evolution is a no turning back thing. Once you've been through the step you can't go back ! So I think a band like Dream Theater, whether you like their new stuff or not is aware about that. It would be easy for them to release Images and Words #2 but they decided to not use this way of selling million of records.

Musically I think Dream Theater and I think the same goes for Metallica are in a position right now where they could go everywhere and people may not necessary like it but at least respect it and that's the most important thing.

I obviously put myself in this category of fans which don't appreciate records but respect their musical and artistic direction.

 

[Demonspell]

It makes sense, since Inside Out is planning a series of reissues for early next year...and I'll probably get Break, if only because my copy doesn't have Once A Week...great song.