Exactly how common is/was the use of vocal tuning? When did it start to become a norm
- Thread starter Cryo114
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Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
I don't know when it started but I know of a great story about Ozzy thinking he was a better singer than he actually is. Wasn't until he popped in on a mixing session for one of his albums (in the 90s) and heard what the engineer was doing with his vocal tracks. Apparently he flipped the fuck out but eventually conceded and let the engineer do his thing
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
I see no problem with it .. its a tool, like EQ & compression, nothing more but like those 2, abusing it is no good
I don't see tuning as being the same as Eq or Compression. Eq and compression only effect the tone and dynamics of a performance. Tuning fixes the performance.
Sure eq and dynamics fix the performance too, but only in a very subtle way.
grywolf627
Member
I can listen to some stuff from pre-tuning days and WISH they had auto-tune and the like back then.
Blah blah blah blah. Yes...I know what you mean. Just like I personally don't like all the editing that goes on today (I come from the old analog 24" tape days). BUT...when you're running a studio as a business...you don't have the luxury to pick and choose only the talented elite. Your job is to make Joe Blow sound good. And even before auto-tune and DAW's...there were still ways to either "tune" (in a way) or at least help to hide pitch imperfections. Computers and Auto-tune/Melodyne just made it easier.
If the singer can't sing then he isn't a singer. Vocal tuning = lame.uke:
Seems it's being used all the time now. Not on Soilworks latest though.
Blah blah blah blah. Yes...I know what you mean. Just like I personally don't like all the editing that goes on today (I come from the old analog 24" tape days). BUT...when you're running a studio as a business...you don't have the luxury to pick and choose only the talented elite. Your job is to make Joe Blow sound good. And even before auto-tune and DAW's...there were still ways to either "tune" (in a way) or at least help to hide pitch imperfections. Computers and Auto-tune/Melodyne just made it easier.
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
^ have fun with that .. I look forward to your cd
I've worked with quite a few singers that are incredibly talented and not a one of them had any issue with me tweaking the tuning of their performance afterwards. I guarantee you they have plenty of self respect but if there is one word in the middle of a incredibly well performed phrase that is out and clashing with a harmony or whatever, how the fuck is it a bad thing to take that word and nudge it a bit?
I've worked with quite a few singers that are incredibly talented and not a one of them had any issue with me tweaking the tuning of their performance afterwards. I guarantee you they have plenty of self respect but if there is one word in the middle of a incredibly well performed phrase that is out and clashing with a harmony or whatever, how the fuck is it a bad thing to take that word and nudge it a bit?
grywolf627
Member
Tuning vocals gives the singer a reason for being sloppy/lazy.
"ahh well, just fix that later..."
No singer with self respect will ever accept vocal tuning.
I'll rather sing off pitch.
That's a rather high ivory tower you've perched yourself on. How's the view from up there?
(apparently a lot of clouds blocking your view of the big picture of things)It's called nothing is good enough.That's a rather high ivory tower you've perched yourself on. How's the view from up there?
There are alot of great records done before the age of vocal-uning, so I don't really see the problem. Who really needs it?
And btw, I'm not saying that I can sing perfect, is that what you think I ment with all my rambling?
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
It's called nothing is good enough.
There are alot of great records done before the age of vocal-uning, so I don't really see the problem. Who really needs it?
And btw, I'm not saying that I can sing perfect, is that what you think I ment with all my rambling?
yes of course there were a lot of great records done pre-autotune, no one is arguing that idea.
there were also a lot of great records made before drum replacement software, does that mean there are a lot of drummers with no self resp ..... you know what? forget that
But it doesn't mean a drummer is lazy or ... shit, can't go there either
ok look, drum replacement is ok
so is tuning vocals, if its not abused or relied on as a crutch
grywolf627
Member
It's called nothing is good enough.
There are alot of great records done before the age of vocal-uning, so I don't really see the problem. Who really needs it?
And btw, I'm not saying that I can sing perfect, is that what you think I ment with all my rambling?
No, no. I know exactly what you meant. And in sentiments...I kind of agree with you. Like I said...I'm old school...getting involved in audio way before the advent of this stuff. But I can tell you this...we wish we HAD access to tools like this back then.
But things are different today, and while I do agree with you to a point, one has to look at the bigger picture. I'm not saying it's right...it's just the way things are.yes of course there were a lot of great records done pre-autotune, no one is arguing that idea.
there were also a lot of great records made before drum replacement software, does that mean there are a lot of drummers with no self resp ..... you know what? forget that
But it doesn't mean a drummer is lazy or ... shit, can't go there either
ok look, drum replacement is ok
so is tuning vocals, if its not abused or relied on as a crutch
I love this post.
(there's truth there too)
Calippo Tecks
Member
There can't be made a final judgement about autotuning.
If the vocalist itself thinks it's fine then it's fine.
Sometimes it makes a record better, sometimes it can make a record worse (when used too much that it becomes to sound silly)
Everybody makes their own choice about that and I think it's definitely a nice tool for fixing it up here and there due to the lack of time on recording sessions.
If the vocalist itself thinks it's fine then it's fine.
Sometimes it makes a record better, sometimes it can make a record worse (when used too much that it becomes to sound silly)
Everybody makes their own choice about that and I think it's definitely a nice tool for fixing it up here and there due to the lack of time on recording sessions.
The comparison to drum replacement is not valid according to me. You're not re-sampling the vocals, you're just making them sound in pitch(which is the singers job all along).yes of course there were a lot of great records done pre-autotune, no one is arguing that idea.
there were also a lot of great records made before drum replacement software, does that mean there are a lot of drummers with no self resp ..... you know what? forget that
But it doesn't mean a drummer is lazy or ... shit, can't go there either
ok look, drum replacement is ok
so is tuning vocals, if its not abused or relied on as a crutch
If I owned my own studio I might have another approach to this, I mean, what the hell can you do if the vocalist is a bit off, you still want the cash.
Calippo Tecks
Member
Tuning vocals gives the singer a reason for being sloppy/lazy.
"ahh well, just fix that later..."
No singer with self respect will ever accept vocal tuning.
I'll rather sing off pitch.
Actually it's the opposite.
Someone with self respect will accept he's just a human being and everything can't be always perfect. Think about it, most perfectionists don't have alot of self respect due to always judgeing theirselves.
Now I do get your point, if I was a vocalist and I could sing every track without having it autotuned/edited in some way I would be even more proud about it but we shouldn't always be so hard for ourselves.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Seems it's being used all the time now. Not on Soilworks latest though.
Yeah, not true - it's definitely in there, especially on the harmonies and layers.
Look - we've had this discussion before. AutoTune is a tool. Sometimes tools get abused.
AutoTune became the norm when people started layering up tons of tracks with equipment and recording mediums that allow you to hear incredibly detailed aspects of a performance.
It also started being used when budgets were shrinking (and still are) and we don't have the time/energy/money/sanity to spend doing 80 takes to get some dude in a booth to give a genius take, personality wise, and also be dead-on, pitchwise. We can worry about the personality of the take, and adjust minor details after the fact. It's a time saving and a convenience thing, not unlike reamping! How many of us have been sent absolute shit for guitar tones, but been able to save the project with reamping? I bet the number is far higher for people who've received pitchy vocal tracks to mix but were able to create something tight, clean, polished, and professional sounding because of Autotune.
It's not like performers are all terrible now, because of autotune, either - go back and really listen to some older albums that you herald as great and with amazing singers. Chances are the guitars aren't even tuned exactly right, let alone the singer.
It's called nothing is good enough.
There are alot of great records done before the age of vocal-uning, so I don't really see the problem. Who really needs it?
And btw, I'm not saying that I can sing perfect, is that what you think I ment with all my rambling?
There were tons of great records done before the age of computers - gonna give those up, too? Are you really saying that you'd let out of tune vocal tracks make it into projects you'd be mixing, simply out of 'integrity for the performance?' I can't wait to see your name on the back of major label releases, since that method is sure to get you a ton of business!
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