Exactly how common is/was the use of vocal tuning? When did it start to become a norm

[Skinny Viking]

The comparison to drum replacement is not valid according to me. You're not re-sampling the vocals, you're just making them sound in pitch(which is the singers job all along).

If I owned my own studio I might have another approach to this, I mean, what the hell can you do if the vocalist is a bit off, you still want the cash.

well if its not valid according to you then of course I must be wrong

How about drum quantization then? Does that work for you? Moving things in time to make a performance tighter. Done too extensively, robs a performance of humanity. Done too little in a performance that needs it, we're left with your future cd (along with the out of tune vocals, should take the world by storm)

Done just right, tightens the performance, keeps the humanity and improves the OVERALL product ... you know, that "big picture" thing Mark mentioned a few posts back

 

[Cryo114]

It's not like performers are all terrible now, because of autotune, either - go back and really listen to some older albums that you herald as great and with amazing singers. Chances are the guitars aren't even tuned exactly right, let alone the singer.

I don't think everything has to be perfectly in tune. You might as well get make all your music done with advanced midi in the future and just use vocaloid to do your your singing.

Imperfections are what makes it human and relatable. For me anyway.

I'm sorry if what ive said was offensive, it's just my opinon and only that. I was just trying to get an historical appreciation with this thread, not a debate.

 

[JeffTD]

I don't think everything has to be perfectly in tune. You might as well get make all your music done with advanced midi in the future and just use vocaloid to do your your singing.

Imperfections are what makes it human and relatable. For me anyway.

Imperfections are one thing - layered, stacked, and consolidated imperfections make for sloppy mixes, skewed intent in musical direction, and a lessened sonic impact.

We can have imperfections while still being in tune - I don't see why we have to sacrifice tuning for ego, though. At the end of the day, don't you want your writing to be heard as you intended it? If you say yes, did you intend for the drums to be out of time, bass to not sit well with the drums, guitars to be out of tune, and for the singer and all his harmony tracks to not mesh well with eachother?

*edit*

I'm sorry if what ive said was offensive, it's just my opinon and only that. I was just trying to get an historical appreciation with this thread, not a debate.

Historical appreciation is great, but we have to be realistic. Stick Freddie Mercury, John Lennon, etc, etc, etc in a modern studio and have them belt their hearts out, track layers, do the harmonies, etc... I really don't think they'll live up to the inhuman expectations we now have for them as 'historic' and almost magical singers.

 

[Rockchops]

No singer with self respect will ever accept vocal tuning.
I'll rather sing off pitch. :Spin:

If the singer can't sing then he isn't a singer. Vocal tuning = lame. uke:

This explains it....

If I owned my own studio I might have another approach to this, I mean, what the hell can you do if the vocalist is a bit off, you still want the cash.

 

[Cryo114]

Historical appreciation is great, but we have to be realistic. Stick Freddie Mercury, John Lennon, etc, etc, etc in a modern studio and have them belt their hearts out, track layers, do the harmonies, etc... I really don't think they'll live up to the inhuman expectations we now have for them as 'historic' and almost magical singers.

I don't care if though would, I was asking as to when it started.

Personally I'd rather listen to music that wasn't as "perfect" as what is aimed for now. I'd rather hear something amazing because somebody could do it, not because some software could make any old person do it.

 

[Menthal]

well if its not valid according to you then of course I must be wrong

How about drum quantization then? Does that work for you? Moving things in time to make a performance tighter. Done too extensively, robs a performance of humanity. Done too little in a performance that needs it, we're left with your future cd (along with the out of tune vocals, should take the world by storm)

Done just right, tightens the performance, keeps the humanity and improves the OVERALL product ... you know, that "big picture" thing Mark mentioned a few posts back

I really like your attitude dude....I don't see the point in using insults. Doesn't bring anything useful to the discussion. If you're trying to make me angry, well, it won't work.

It's kind of hard to compare an instrument to someones voice.
Comparing performance with performance, well of course you can do that to some extent, but if we're talking about tuning why not mention a guitar instead? Makes much more sense since they're both dependent on the pitch being somewhat correct.

But that wouldn't prove your point, so thats why you compared voice performance to drum performance.

If there is any condescendence in my writing I apologize. I know I may come across as a smart ass.

 

[JeffTD]

Well, it was developed by an Exxon employee, and the plug-in was first released in 1997. First real noticeable use of it was on the infamous Cher track, although I'm sure it was used more subtly before then. I'm sure it was used before then, but I'd venture to guess it started becoming the 'norm' with the huge bubble of 90's rock/pop bands like Sugar Ray, No Doubt, Everclear, Nine Days, Third Eye Blind, and was solidified by the late 90's/early 00's pop groups like Backstreet Boys, N*Sync, Britney Spears, Destiny's Child, etc.

If there is any condescendence in my writing I apologize. I know I may come across as a smart ass.

It's not that it comes off as smart-ass-y, but that it comes off as obvious that you don't record/produce/mix very often, or at least with anyone but yourself. I've really never heard anyone who's a proficient mixer/producer sincerely bitch about Autotune to the extent I hear garage-bands and indie/scene/hipster kids do it.

 

[grywolf627]

Well, it was developed by an Exxon employee, and the plug-in was first released in 1997. First real noticeable use of it was on the infamous Cher track, although I'm sure it was used more subtly before then. I'm sure it was used before then, but I'd venture to guess it started becoming the 'norm' with the huge bubble of 90's rock/pop bands like Sugar Ray, No Doubt, Everclear, Nine Days, Third Eye Blind, and was solidified by the late 90's/early 00's pop groups like Backstreet Boys, N*Sync, Britney Spears, Destiny's Child, etc.

Thanks for this Jeff. I was just about to apologize for helping to let this get away from the original question. I was so involved in the analog world, I had no clue what was going on in the new digital world for some time (and didn't care to know). I had to be dragged into the digital age. Of course, now that's all I have access to today. Ironies.

 

[Cryo114]

It's not that it comes off as smart-ass-y, but that it comes off as obvious that you don't record/produce/mix very often, or at least with anyone but yourself. I've really never heard anyone who's a proficient mixer/producer sincerely bitch about Autotune to the extent I hear garage-bands and indie/scene/hipster kids do it.

Thanks for your other input.

I think I fall into that type of mixer/recorder. But apart from not having recorded many people, I'm not a fan of fixing things too much, I'm really not a fan of that kind of music. But I'm not out to make money or to have hits. I do it for the fun of it and i dont charge, nor do i expect to, I work like the old studios did. If you are good you'll sound good. And i have no fun if somebody looks at me to make there performance different from what it actually is. When people hear what I've made they hear the musicians.

I don't blame you guys for fixing things under your pressure, I just don't like the music that comes out. No right or wrong about it.

 

[Menthal]

It's not that it comes off as smart-ass-y, but that it comes off as obvious that you don't record/produce/mix very often, or at least with anyone but yourself. I've really never heard anyone who's a proficient mixer/producer sincerely bitch about Autotune to the extent I hear garage-bands and indie/scene/hipster kids do it.

Well that is true, I'm a musician not a producer/mixer but I'm interested in that part though. I'm just one guy telling what I think and I think it's sad that such a tool is used. For me it's an invention for the mainstream music were money is the only real goal.

For me music is suppose to be alive and honest. I think I was born 40 years to late. :Spin:

A man can dream though, a man can dream....

 

[Skinny Viking]

If there is any condescendence in my writing I apologize. I know I may come across as a smart ass.

no need to apologize, I have pretty thick skin and I was dishing out as much attitude in my post as yours seemed to have. I was being a smart ass, for the record, but that doesn't make my points any less valid. I didn't say I was right or wrong, if you go back and look at my initial post you'll see that I took a very neutral course ... I mention its a tool, and like all tools it can be used for good or abused. My examples about drum quantization etc were merely the 1st ideas that came to mind. There was no deeper purpose of trying to camouflage a weak argument and yet you seem to think I was using it to deflect attention. You seem very certain about your view and thats fine, just don't make the mistake of saying anyone who thinks different is wrong

 

[Mea_Culpa89]

I know that these days, it's pretty common, but in terms of 90's stuff, when did it all start to kick in?

Sometimes I can tell theres tuning on a record and sometime i'm not sure.

http://www.wimp.com/autotunehistory/

Watch this, really helpful video
Cheers

 

[Max Morton]

I love tuning. As much as I love quantising and retuning gtrs after each take. Everything may serve to polish stuff a bit or to make things sound robotic. Overquantized drums suck, sometimes even guitars can sound too sterile. Vocals, where every note is perfectly pitched sound dead and emotionless, but just a touch of improvement on everything is a great tool in our hands.

Overquantizing or overtuning is like using hipass 192 db/oct)) has no sence and harms material

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ Thank you!

yet another VERY talented, self respecting vocalist who gets it

It was the point I made all along

 

[Chryst Krispies]

. Sometimes tools get abused.
!

NOT AT THE TABLE CARLOS.

Autotune is a great tool. Autotune the news wouldn't exist without it...

If you don't think autotune is cool you prolly suck at life...Yes that's immature. I don't care.
Autotune is on everything...quit bitchin.

 

[Skinny Viking]

NOT AT THE TABLE CARLOS.

Dude, what can I say?

I'm a fuckin monkey

 

[Cryo114]

http://www.wimp.com/autotunehistory/

Watch this, really helpful video
Cheers

That refers only to autotune. I doubt that was the first tool used to tune vox. But i might be wrong.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I just have to say, how many people with this retarded (sorry but it's true) anti-autotune point of view are hugely successful? not many, I'm willing to bet.

as has been said by a few others in this thread - it's all about the stacking. if we were single tracking vocals the whole way through a song with no harmonies or other layers, we probably wouldn't need to use it as much... we'd also be left with boring songs.

 

[Menthal]

This will show if we're really worlds apart or agreeing to some extent:

Do you guys use vocal tuning cause the singer is off pitch or cause you like the "effect" that it gives?

There are loads of bands that sound shit live(and kind of good on their CD) sometimes because the singer is off pitch like a madman. Do you guys mean that it's a good thing to tune that persons vocals or should someone tell him/her to shut the fuck up and get a job?

If a band can't deliver live then they've deceived/cheated all their fans. Am I the only one thinking this way? Every time I hear a singer that can pull off a great live performance my respect for them grows like a....

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Dude you'r an engineer, not the fucking AandR guy at the label. They got signed it's not your place to "unsign" them. You make them sound their best. End.

Getting all philosophical about it is not getting you jobs dude.