Exactly how common is/was the use of vocal tuning? When did it start to become a norm

[grywolf627]

That refers only to autotune. I doubt that was the first tool used to tune vox. But i might be wrong.

I'm not sure if auto-tune was the first software/DAW based vox tuner. But as I said earlier, even back in the pre-DAW analog days, we did some small pitch corrections at times. It was just a major pain in the butt. Usually using something like an Eventide harmonizer...I mean, even the ollllld ones before intelligent pitch shifting. Just raising or lowering the pitch by small amounts on a word or short phrase here and there. Anything more than a 1/2 was usually really obvious. I would have loved to have had something like auto-tune or melodyne back then!

Dude your an engineer, not the fucking AandR guy at the label. They got signed it's not your place to "unsign" them. You make them sound their best. End.

Getting all philosophical about it is not getting you jobs dude.

EXACTLY.

 

[Max Morton]

^ Thank you!

yet another VERY talented, self respecting vocalist who gets it

It was the point I made all along

Thanks, man. Just posted my thoughts and read your message about EQ and comp. Felt like it's my own thoughts

 

[Menthal]

Dude your an engineer, not the fucking AandR guy at the label. They got signed it's not your place to "unsign" them. You make them sound their best. End.

Getting all philosophical about it is not getting you jobs dude.

Hehe, guess it's a good thing I'm not working as a sound engineer, I might have been even poorer then I am now.

 

[Cryo114]

I just have to say, how many people with this retarded (sorry but it's true) anti-autotune point of view are hugely successful? not many, I'm willing to bet.

If success is what your intersted in, metal isnt the goldmine. Some people care about other things.

 

[GarethSE]

Menthal I completely agree with everything you've said but there is no way you're gonna be able to sustain a career in the modern recording industry with such idealism (which I completely support, don't get me wrong.)
I had a crack at it and I found myself completley at odds with myself MORALLY. I didn't want to tune the vocals because I believed if a vocalist sucked, you shouldn't be fixing it, you should be leaving it in so no-one would buy their record and thus they'd be forced to fucking PRACTICE more and actually become decent fucking musicians, but I didn't want to put something out with my name attached to it if it sucked. So you take one of two routes, you either keep to your idealism and do things your own way and accept that it will only ever be on a small scale or you just tune it anyway and fuck the idealism.

Especially with modern metal, you can't really have both. When was the last time anyone released a record that sounds like Immolation - Failures For Gods? Dirty, muddy, sloppy, spastic and by all modern standards "shit." Even your slightly more underground stuff like Soilwork still has some degree of it going on, more responsible for sure, but still more than there should be in the first place.
As I find myself gravitating towards jazz, traditional and world music, and experimental genres, I find that there is an expectation to record everything and mix it in the most honest way possible, but not metal. You won't find very few people who support your viewpoint here. Not until some big name producer drops by and echos your sentiment, at which point the whole forum will put down the melodyne and go au naturel.

Maybe I should tell Steve Albini to come post here, hah.

 

[Fragle]

yes of course there were a lot of great records done pre-autotune, no one is arguing that idea.

there were also a lot of great records made before drum replacement software, does that mean there are a lot of drummers with no self resp ..... you know what? forget that

But it doesn't mean a drummer is lazy or ... shit, can't go there either

ok look, drum replacement is ok

so is tuning vocals, if its not abused or relied on as a crutch

actually, in a way drum replacement was actually GOOD for metal.
just think of all the buried kicks you can (or better said, can not) hear in 80s metal records. slap a trigger on there, and all kinds of timing errors would pop out thats for sure. so triggering stuff actually made drummers work harder on their foot technique.
beat detective however is another story....hehe.

 

[nialldoran]

autotuning or fuckin manual tuning it shoul be called, is something i dont really like myself, but completely know when something needs it and as was mentioned i wudn abuse it,for example if the vocalist went through the whole song without hitting one correct note, i wudnt use auto tune, id tell im to do it again no matter how pressed for time we were, he has to be very close then i will fine tune, there would be no need for the tool if we lived in a perfect world where singers could nail every layer, but we dont, although i wish we did

 

[Cryo114]

Seriously, what i can see here is that most of you only give a toss about doing your jobs so they seem like pro producer works. You don't seem to give two shits about what bands you propel into the mainstream. Seems like most have gone from music fans to music workers. You might as well be mixing the music for ad's. Work is work right?

 

[grywolf627]

...Work is work right?

Actually...it is.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

If success is what your intersted in, metal isnt the goldmine. Some people care about other things.

Seriously, what i can see here is that most of you only give a toss about doing your jobs so they seem like pro producer works. You don't seem to give two shits about what bands you propel into the mainstream. Seems like most have gone from music fans to music workers. You might as well be mixing the music for ad's. Work is work right?

good thing I don't limit myself to metal. and you're right, I want my works to sound like "pro producer works" - who doesn't??? furthermore, if a band has the work ethic to "make it to the mainstream" then I think they deserve it no matter how bad hxcmetalcore kids think it is.


ps. who ISN'T interested in success???? isn't that like a rule of human nature lmao

ps2. I would love love love to mix the music for ads

 

[Cryo114]

Actually...it is.

Sure it is. That's my point. Work is work. You might as well be selling carpets or cleaning toilets.

 

[Line666]

The productions with too much autotune in the last decade or so are going to date like 80's artificial reverb on the snare (read: not well).

If I was in a band I'd definitely be pushing people to not rely on this turd polishing though, I think as an aesthetic I'm liking the real sounds of things much more in comparison to all this over-processed stuff, theres potential for (very good) bands to make a break at the moment by defying these constructed expectations, but I definitely wouldn't scrap all this patching up for anything other than the very best, theres too many half arsed and shit ideas that need fixing so as not to sound an utter crock.

 

[Cryo114]

ps. who ISN'T interested in success???? isn't that like a rule of human nature lmao

Not everybody rates success by money.

 

[GarethSE]

Success isn't something everyone wants. Artists generally create and do not care whether it is successful or not, as long as they are expressing themselves. Art is not something very many people on this forum strive to be making, rather they're making products. The whole modern "your band is a business" point of view sort of thing.

Some people just want to create art, Clowd, and if it is successful, well then that's an added bonus.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Not everybody rates success by money.

of course, there's also happiness... isn't that the reason we want to make money by making music? that's why I do anyway.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Success isn't something everyone wants. Artists generally create and do not care whether it is successful or not, as long as they are expressing themselves. Art is not something very many people on this forum strive to be making, rather they're making products. The whole modern "your band is a business" point of view sort of thing.

Some people just want to create art, Clowd, and if it is successful, well then that's an added bonus.

don't get me wrong, I admire your idealism... but what happens when you have bills to pay and mouths to feed? I wish it could work the way you are talking about, but I just don't feel it's realistic.

by the way, does it mean its not art anymore just because the vocals are tuned?

 

[Line666]

I dont think he disagrees:

Menthal I completely agree with everything you've said but there is no way you're gonna be able to sustain a career in the modern recording industry with such idealism (which I completely support, don't get me wrong.)

 

[Cryo114]

Money doesn't always = happiness. At least it doesnt for me. If i die poor doing what i love, I'll die happy. You cant take your success with you.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Money doesn't always = happiness. At least it doesnt for me. If i die poor doing what i love, I'll die happy. You cant take your success with you.

but my point is you can have both!!

 

[GarethSE]

Yeah, I don't disagree in the slightest. I think any line of work I do from now on will be something I can leave behind when I go home at the end of the day.
I'm gonna get started with recording again shortly, but it's gonna be on a smaller scale and based around recording acoustic stuff, wind brass and string bands, jazz, more acoustic, natural stuff that'll mix itself, and just on the sidelines for fun and a bit of extra cash, nothing commercial.

My idealism won out, that was my exact point, you can't sustain a career in the modern recording business being an idealist and a modern mix engineer all at once.