Fast Drum Programming Problem Re: Circle Pit Beat

A

AndrewPGlover

Member
Nov 28, 2009
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I am working on a friend's band's record and they just got a new drummer who lives far away so they asked me to program the drums. For the most part their drums have been really easy and painless as far as programming goes, but on two songs I am having a hell of a time with one style drum beat.

In my band we have always referred to it as the "monkey beat" and I have heard others call it the "scissor beat" but it basically looks like this:

Hi Hat Hi Hat Hi Hat
Snare Snare
Kick Kick Kick


For some reason when it is played more than a measure or so it starts to sound off time. I have tried nudging the snare hits, or making them lighter, tried humanizing them and re recorded the guitar scratch tracks a handful of times to make sure they were tight enough. I even tried doing it with a different computer/daw to see if it was my rig.

Nothing I do works and it always ends up sounding retarded. I was wondering if anybody had any remedies to not have this sound like shit. You would be saving my ass and if you can make these sound right, or show me how I will be eternally grateful.

Here are the links. I did two types of the beat, one with the hi hat on constant 16th notes and the other one has it only when the kick hits. I prefer the second type, but their drummer likes the first.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Monkey Beat 1.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Mokey Beat 1.mid

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Monkey Beat 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Monkey Beat 2.mid

Thanks in advance, I know this is a lot, but I'm crossing my fingers that somebody here is enlightened and knows the way to make good sounding monkey beats a reality.
 
First link- nothing there
Second link is piano
Third is some music with the drums, its def out of time at spots.
Fourth link is also another piano....
 
Dalinkwent48@aim.com said:
First link- nothing there
Second link is piano
Third is some music with the drums, its def out of time at spots.
Fourth link is also another piano....
Click to expand...

bahahaa!!!

if you are on a windows machine, you can change the gm sound set to the voice number 113-120... (percussive)

that will ensure every time you open a midi file, you will hear drums... (unless intended otherwise).


but yes... the first clip was empty.
 
I think the second one fits the riff much better, although usually I much more prefer the first beat.

The second beat is also easier to make sound realistic, you really need to play around with the velocities in beats like the first one quite a bit to make it sound like someone's actually playing it.

As for your question, I don't get it. I don't think the patterns sound off time?
 
My dropbox is giving me all kinds of trouble, but I think some people are able to hear what I am doing. The D-Beat thing was close, but it seemed that the snare needs to be at double the time.

I think the best example of the beat I'm trying to do is the opening beat of Slaughter of the Soul by At The Gates... it sounds like it is just:

h - h - h - h - h - h - h - h
- s - s - s - s - s - s - s -
k - k - k - k - k - k - k - k

but I can't figure out why every single instance of this beat sounds off even when the drums are perfectly quantized and solo'd.
 
You need to play with the velocity of the hats... if I were doing it, it would go something like...


127 100 120 100 120 100 90 120 127 100 120 100 127 100 120 100

Just play with which parts you want to accentuate based on what riff the guitarists are playing.
 
It sounds off time because your focus is on the snare-drum, which is not on '1'. If you listen to really obviously programmed blast-beats, the same thing happens. Make your snare softer, or make the beat '1' more emphasised, either through EQing the kick or adding guitars or something. Otherwise, just run with it, it can sound cool.
 
Thank you guys so much! I will try all of these techniques. I didn't have the snare on 1, I had it starting on the second 16th, so maybe that was part of the issue...
 
What's the tempo? Doing the one hi hat hit is kinda puss at a tempo that's possible to be two. Of course the velocities when there's two are very different.

And Morgan is totally correct. It bugs me as well when it's accented wrong and all you hear is the inbetween beats. The leading kick needs to have more impact than the snare.
 
Force666 said:
What's the tempo? Doing the one hi hat hit is kinda puss at a tempo that's possible to be two. Of course the velocities when there's two are very different.

And Morgan is totally correct. It bugs me as well when it's accented wrong and all you hear is the inbetween beats. The leading kick needs to have more impact than the snare.
Click to expand...

+1000000000000
 
Not so much with a one-two type, but with blast (kick leading "traditional blast") the snare hits shouldn't be lined up perfectly on the grid. The snare hits should be hitting before the 16th note on the grid, to where around the middle of the transient lines up on the grid. In the blast and those one-two beats you have to let the kick lead the beat by lowering the volume of the snare hits, I know were all about that cracking snare, but it just doesn't work and will lead to confusion when not "heard" properly like it sounds when a drummer actually plays it in the room.
 
AndrewPGlover said:
I am working on a friend's band's record and they just got a new drummer who lives far away so they asked me to program the drums. For the most part their drums have been really easy and painless as far as programming goes, but on two songs I am having a hell of a time with one style drum beat.

In my band we have always referred to it as the "monkey beat" and I have heard others call it the "scissor beat" but it basically looks like this:

Hi Hat Hi Hat Hi Hat
Snare Snare
Kick Kick Kick


For some reason when it is played more than a measure or so it starts to sound off time. I have tried nudging the snare hits, or making them lighter, tried humanizing them and re recorded the guitar scratch tracks a handful of times to make sure they were tight enough. I even tried doing it with a different computer/daw to see if it was my rig.

Nothing I do works and it always ends up sounding retarded. I was wondering if anybody had any remedies to not have this sound like shit. You would be saving my ass and if you can make these sound right, or show me how I will be eternally grateful.

Here are the links. I did two types of the beat, one with the hi hat on constant 16th notes and the other one has it only when the kick hits. I prefer the second type, but their drummer likes the first.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Monkey Beat 1.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Mokey Beat 1.mid

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Monkey Beat 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8779128/Monkey Beat 2.mid

Thanks in advance, I know this is a lot, but I'm crossing my fingers that somebody here is enlightened and knows the way to make good sounding monkey beats a reality.
Click to expand...

That is the humppa-beat

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you guys for all your help. After hours of playing around with it I am almost happy with them. I think getting my mind off them and coming back will allow me to get them perfect. Thanks a lot!
 
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