FINALLY! My latest work:

Can't say much other than awesome :)

I just got annoyed by the kick, it lacked bass around 40-50hz but had plenty around 90-100hz for my taste (hope I got the numbers right), but after a while I realized it actually fits the mix so why change it. So now I kinda like the kick and I have nothing more to point out. This mix = profit.
 
So, you said you liked Andy's idea of running the Finalizer during the mix to tweak, so I assume you did that...And then turned it off. But then you say you had enough power to run the whole mastering chain during the mix...So, Once the finalizer was added, all the other mastering was, too? So this was mastered during the mix, so to speak?

*EDIT*
Also, there is nothing after the Finalizer? Do you use your Finalizer as the final "limiter" in the chain as well as the dithering on the Finalizer?

If you remember, I have a Finalizer like yours, and I usually end up with a limiter after the finalizer to finish out the chain.

I've been working in a way similar to what you describe, but I can't get the final volume as loud as what I did with the limiter at the end, or when I had the Finalizer in the middle of the chain.

I usually go:
EQ
Finalizer
Clipping
limiter

Trying it your way, with the finalizer last sounds more "pro" but I struggle to hit the same volume level I did using my old chain. I definitely like what I hear, but don't quite get the loudness.

interesting.
 
Gojira_ said:
Can't say much other than awesome :)

I just got annoyed by the kick, it lacked bass around 40-50hz but had plenty around 90-100hz for my taste (hope I got the numbers right), but after a while I realized it actually fits the mix so why change it. So now I kinda like the kick and I have nothing more to point out. This mix = profit.
Click to expand...

I think it fits the mix pretty well too, but that's another thing I'm still tweaking a bit. The body of the kick is actually around 60hz, and then there's a pretty sharp roll-off right there. Maybe even just a more shallow roll-off would be good...

nwright said:
So, you said you liked Andy's idea of running the Finalizer during the mix to tweak, so I assume you did that...And then turned it off. But then you say you had enough power to run the whole mastering chain during the mix...So, Once the finalizer was added, all the other mastering was, too? So this was mastered during the mix, so to speak?

*EDIT*
Also, there is nothing after the Finalizer? Do you use your Finalizer as the final "limiter" in the chain as well as the dithering on the Finalizer?

If you remember, I have a Finalizer like yours, and I usually end up with a limiter after the finalizer to finish out the chain.

I've been working in a way similar to what you describe, but I can't get the final volume as loud as what I did with the limiter at the end, or when I had the Finalizer in the middle of the chain.

I usually go:
EQ
Finalizer
Clipping
limiter

Trying it your way, with the finalizer last sounds more "pro" but I struggle to hit the same volume level I did using my old chain. I definitely like what I hear, but don't quite get the loudness.

interesting.
Click to expand...

I mixed for a while, turned on the Finalizer and mixed for a while, turned it off to listen, liked it and didn't really adjust anything else, turned the Finalizer back on, then added the other mastering plugs before the Finalizer... That's the long answer for "Yes, I mastered during mixing", haha.

My work flow is always open to change, but I like putting the Finalizer last because it seems to perform better when it's receiving a signal that has already been somewhat leveled out...that C4 in my chain helps tame the meters a bit. Notably with guitars and toms, I'm sure you've found that the Finalizer likes to produce audible clipping at times when you wouldn't expect it to...it's frustrating. A little bit of my loudness is coming from the Inflator too, but with this project I actually didn't have to try very hard to get the loudness, which I think comes down a lot to the mix itself.

I spent like an hour yesterday reading half of this really fantastic thread on Gearslutz about Ted Jensen/loudness...it's like 20 pages, but you should check it out:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/62358-ted-jensen-whose-watched-him.html
 
Holy Fucking Sheeeet. Song itself kicks ass, but the mix is too good!!! Drums are a big highlight of it...I'm not going to ask too much, but is it possible to share your D6 kick sample? Cheers dude!
 
Aaron Smith said:
I think it fits the mix pretty well too, but that's another thing I'm still tweaking a bit. The body of the kick is actually around 60hz, and then there's a pretty sharp roll-off right there. Maybe even just a more shallow roll-off would be good...



I mixed for a while, turned on the Finalizer and mixed for a while, turned it off to listen, liked it and didn't really adjust anything else, turned the Finalizer back on, then added the other mastering plugs before the Finalizer... That's the long answer for "Yes, I mastered during mixing", haha.

My work flow is always open to change, but I like putting the Finalizer last because it seems to perform better when it's receiving a signal that has already been somewhat leveled out...that C4 in my chain helps tame the meters a bit. Notably with guitars and toms, I'm sure you've found that the Finalizer likes to produce audible clipping at times when you wouldn't expect it to...it's frustrating. A little bit of my loudness is coming from the Inflator too, but with this project I actually didn't have to try very hard to get the loudness, which I think comes down a lot to the mix itself.

I spent like an hour yesterday reading half of this really fantastic thread on Gearslutz about Ted Jensen/loudness...it's like 20 pages, but you should check it out:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/62358-ted-jensen-whose-watched-him.html
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll check it out.

As it stand now, in reading your thread you said that doing it the way you did had you reaching around -10dB RMS pretty easily. I usually do it similar to how you describe and I get between -11 and -10...But, like you said, you can sometimes hear a little clipping with the Finalizer. Trying it using a subtle MB comp and THEN into the Finalizer seemed to help a bit, great tip! I've also been going back and forth on whether or not to use the softclip functions on the Finalizer...On the Normalize section, it's starts to softclip at -6dB, and on the Finalize part, it does at -3dB...I rarely have it clipping in the normalize state, but I do in Finalize.

Do you use the softclips?
 
lordcthulhu said:
Holy Fucking Sheeeet. Song itself kicks ass, but the mix is too good!!! Drums are a big highlight of it...I'm not going to ask too much, but is it possible to share your D6 kick sample? Cheers dude!
Click to expand...

I've actually been thinking that I could post the raw samples. It would be a track from the D6 and a track from the SM91, so the user could blend them to taste... Where can I upload the wav files with having to use a crappy yousendit kind of site? I miss the ol' forum FTP...

nwright said:
Thanks, I'll check it out.

As it stand now, in reading your thread you said that doing it the way you did had you reaching around -10dB RMS pretty easily. I usually do it similar to how you describe and I get between -11 and -10...But, like you said, you can sometimes hear a little clipping with the Finalizer. Trying it using a subtle MB comp and THEN into the Finalizer seemed to help a bit, great tip! I've also been going back and forth on whether or not to use the softclip functions on the Finalizer...On the Normalize section, it's starts to softclip at -6dB, and on the Finalize part, it does at -3dB...I rarely have it clipping in the normalize state, but I do in Finalize.

Do you use the softclips?
Click to expand...

For this project I have the Normalize softclip turned on; it seems like when it's turned off, there's actually more clipping (or at least more audible clipping). And I actually have softclip turned off in the Finalize section, and the cheesy compression grid is set to far left/two up. I'm sure you already know this, but you can actually turn up all three EQ knobs evenly in order to hit the Finalizer's limiter harder, but I've never actually found it useful...it kind of eats the snare like an L2, and it creates more clipping :rolleyes:

I actually threw another Event Horizon post-Finalizer on the session tonight, just trying to trim a little bit more snare off there, and then used the maxim limiter (recently made free by Digidesign as long as you're on 7.4 and above; sounds quite good to my ears) to squeeze out another dB or so, and I'm actually sitting at a consistent -8dB, down into -7dB at times. I may have cooked it a little too much with the Event Horizon though, and I don't think even subtle clipping after mp3 conversion should be justified by that measly 1dB of level I gained...
 
Aaron Smith said:
For this project I have the Normalize softclip turned on; it seems like when it's turned off, there's actually more clipping (or at least more audible clipping). And I actually have softclip turned off in the Finalize section, and the cheesy compression grid is set to far left/two up. I'm sure you already know this, but you can actually turn up all three EQ knobs evenly in order to hit the Finalizer's limiter harder, but I've never actually found it useful...it kind of eats the snare like an L2, and it creates more clipping :rolleyes:

I actually threw another Event Horizon post-Finalizer on the session tonight, just trying to trim a little bit more snare off there, and then used the maxim limiter (recently made free by Digidesign as long as you're on 7.4 and above; sounds quite good to my ears) to squeeze out another dB or so, and I'm actually sitting at a consistent -8dB, down into -7dB at times. I may have cooked it a little too much with the Event Horizon though, and I don't think even subtle clipping after mp3 conversion should be justified by that measly 1dB of level I gained...
Click to expand...


Thanks, this makes me feel better about what I do and what I hear with the Finalizer.

I usually run softclip on the normalize section, but I've yet to have a mix that actually shows the normalize clip light on the meters actually turn on. If I'm remembering right, the softclip on normalize is what pushes the compressor hard and softclips before hitting the comp, the finalize softclip clips AFTER the comp but before the limiter, IIRC, which for me, I think it sounds better just getting the mix to hit right at 0dB rather than having the softclip start to softclip at -3...At least for metal. In setting up the mastering chain similar to yours, I found that I definitely preferred to not softclip on the Finalize section as well.

This is a great mix and master, and thanks for your insight into my questions.
 
Aaron Smith said:
I've actually been thinking that I could post the raw samples. It would be a track from the D6 and a track from the SM91, so the user could blend them to taste... Where can I upload the wav files with having to use a crappy yousendit kind of site? I miss the ol' forum FTP...
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's very kind of you! Kazrog's Sneap FTP still works thank God, so perhaps shoot a PM to GuitarGodgt or Kazrog himself, if ya don't have a FTP client (I should get CuteFTP one of these days :/).

http://sneapforum.kazrog.com
login: sneapforum
password: sn3apf0rum

Cheers
 
I actually covered the bass pretty well earlier in the thread, and the final mixes are basically the exact same thing compared to what it was when I posted the earlier mix. The gist of the tone is a combination of the burly sounding bass guitar itself (DI), and some SansAmp blended in. Actually, the grit/tonal aspect of what you're hearing actually comes much more from the DI than the SansAmp, although the SansAmp just pushes it in front of the mix a little more.

Bass guitar was some kind of Spector bass with Bartolini pickups, and the waveform on the DI track was kind of half-way squared-off looking, which sounded perfectly fine and I assume had to do with the hotness of the preamp or pickups in the bass. The DI track of that bass just sounded beastly... I did however roll off much of the high end to get rid of the fret clickiness, and then I reamped the 300-1000Hz range through the SansAmp RB-1, which added some really awesome burly grit into the tone. There's some independent EQing on each track, and then a bit more EQ and some heavy compression/limiting on the bass bus.
Click to expand...

Actually, one thing that is a bit different from the initial description, is that I actually boosted the upper midrange by about 6dB instead of cutting there, and it made the bass jump out some more as well.
 
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