FireWire and Audio Interfaces

[Deathmetal616]

Hello guys!
So I've switched from Cubase to ProTools and came across a problem with my interface, the tascam us-1800. It's a common problem that it's buffer sizes aren't compatible with the PT I/O settings. Only two settings are working but I still get crazy latency and stability problems. So I tried running my interface with ASIO4all instead of the tascam driver and now it works quite okay for mixing, but I still get unstandable latency while recording. So I've decided to change the interface. I don't want to miss my plenty of inputs (14analog) on the tascam so I searched for another interface with equal capacities and it seems that usb isn't available with so many inputs... So switching to FireWire should be the only option.

http://www.musicstore.de/en_EN/GBP/...e-Firewire-Audio-Interface/art-PCM0007780-000
After some research I would like to buy this one. But I have some questions regarding it and FW.

-The interface says FW400 connection. If I buy a FW800 card is it still connectable without issues? or should I buy only a FW400 card?

-Are there any known issues with PT? What does their driver look like?

-Any other experiences with this interface? Other recommendations?

-Maybe a solution to the tascam problem?

Thanks in advance!
Cheers.

 

[Slemmu]

Check hardware compatibility here: http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro-tools-hardware-checker/
Firestudio tube: "Does not work with Pro Tools 9 and Windows 7. It only works if you use the Asio4all. On Mac works fine alone. Chained with a Firestudio, background system noise is heard from the 8 analog pres."

 

[superfreak]

The FireStudio Tube is a discontinued product, it's not practical to invest in something that will eventually have no support.

There are a number of good USB interfaces, with high I/O count, that work well with Pro Tools, for example...

Roland Studio Capture - 16 Analog Inputs (12 Preamps) / 8 Analog Outputs.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UA1610

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 + OctoPre MkII - 16 Analog Inputs (16 Preamps) / 10 Analog Outputs.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlett18i20/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctoPre2/

 

[Deathmetal616]

Okay, thanks so far. You've already helped me alot. That Avid page is awesome, really helpful.
I've also thought about the Roland, but it's pretty expensive... Also the focusrite looks good, but I can only obtain that amount of inputs via ADAT. Never used it, so I'm a little sceptical... I think I'll do some research for that. The FireWire question is still there. FW800 card downwards compatible to FW400 hardware? I guess google knows it, haha!
Thanks again.

 

[Behind]

I wouldn't buy anything until USB 3.0 is here.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I prefer Firewire,more stable(in my opinion).

 

[egan.]

I wouldn't buy anything until USB 3.0 is here.

The RME, Apogee and Lynx USB stuff I've used has all been great (all with protools). I get what you mean, but the nice thing with anything USB is it appears to be here to stay and has great backwards compatibility even when new standards emerge.

 

[Behind]

I don't understand why 3.0 hasn't become a standard when speed is so important when speaking about audio interfaces.

 

[exoslime]

I don't understand why 3.0 hasn't become a standard when speed is so important when speaking about audio interfaces.

i guess its not speed in terms of transfer rate through the protocol is what important, its more the reaction time how fast the communication between A<->B can happen.

someone told me that usb works great for most occasions, but as its universal there are lots of glitches in the protocol which makes it hard to have a very very fast and stable reaction time.

i´m still very happy with firewire, even my old mackie onyx with firewire 400standard (very outdated) can handle 18 simultanous mono tracks at very short latency and is super stable.

If i would upgrade to a new interface, i would only take firewire, thunderbolt or PCIe Cards.. but not USB.

the main problem though is not the lack of audio interfaces and pricing issue, but that most laptops today dont even have a firewire bus anymore!

though i have to say, i really enjoy my usb 3.0 ports when transfering files from my memory cards or external harddiscs, this goes really well and does have a nice transfer rate

 

[Line666]

I don't understand why USB3 hasn't become a standard when Firewire is so terrible.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

The RME, Apogee and Lynx USB stuff I've used has all been great (all with protools). I get what you mean, but the nice thing with anything USB is it appears to be here to stay and has great backwards compatibility even when new standards emerge.

I can add Steinberg to that list, I love my UR824 and have no problems running it at 64 samples of latency

 

[egan.]

I don't understand why 3.0 hasn't become a standard when speed is so important when speaking about audio interfaces.

I think it's a combination of dev cost, market penetration of USB3 and the fact that most people are perfectly happy with the sub 10ms round trips you can easily get from existing FW and USB2 interfaces (My UFX does under 5ms round trip). Most folks who need something faster are in a position to buy an HD or Symphony rig.

I don't understand why USB3 hasn't become a standard when Firewire is so terrible.

Do you care to elaborate? I've owned a few FW interfaces and had exactly zero issues. The vast majority of FW issues I read about stem from people using poorly designed built in FW adapters.

 

[Line666]

Do you care to elaborate? I've owned a few FW interfaces and had exactly zero issues. The vast majority of FW issues I read about stem from people using poorly designed built in FW adapters.

I think it's fine if you have a Mac; if you have a Windows PC it's a shitstorm though; literally NOTHING will work properly bar TI chipsets for anything unless you are really lucky - capturing video, audio or anything that requires stability at low latency is so often a mess. Even if you do get TI chipset expansion card you can still run the risk of having it run up against less than ideal motherboard design on a laptop or even a desktop on occassion. On top of that if you don't ultilise legacy drivers in Windows then you can run into other issues and even when set up entirely by the book I've never found them to be totally stable.

The issue really is that Apple developed the format in conjunction with TI and so Windows integration was really an afterthought leading to a lot of problems with it's use: as audio is such a predominantly Apple-tied industry though and Firewire was better at sending data in a continuous stream instead of packets like USB we have to deal with this sub-standard integration in the prosumer market in the name of low latency.

Overall USB is much more reliable, stable and has much less choking issues cross platform; as well as being a standard. USB2 obviously had some issues with data transfer at low latency due to its architecture but USB3 has more than enough bandwidth to deal with low latency recording - the fact that it hasn't been utilised on more interfaces is mostly laziness; Firewire has been behind the curve for years and it's really time its use was entirely phased out.

 

[Studdy]

I use a RME Fireface 800 (Firewire). I've had it running on 3 different windows based computers, and now on a Mac. It has never, ever given me a moments problem. It has been excellent. I've tried a bunch of usb interfaces, and they all acted like complete shit as far as reliability and system errors. This is by no means scientific, just my experience.

 

[Shull]

Another FW user here. I've used a Firestudio for a few years on Windows 7 with absolutely no issues. If I were to buy an interface today, HOWEVER, I'd probably get USB, just because FW inputs seem to be less common on newer motherboards. As said before, USB 3.0 will be the standard soon enough...

 

[Pickasso]

I think it's fine if you have a Mac; if you have a Windows PC it's a shitstorm though;

Sound like you've had some really bad luck. Been using Firestudio Mobile and Focusrite Saffire firewire units for years on Windows 7 and Vista pc's, very reliable, low latency, no issues.
USB units have always been problematic with poor latency for me. Maybe they're getting better now....

One nice thing about these Firewire interfaces, you can get them very affordable used.

 

[Line666]

Sound like you've had some really bad luck.

Not really, I work as a technician in the AV section of a college and so I get to see problems extrapolated out onto a bigger scale - firewire has always consistently given me more problems than USB in terms of having to provide technical support; that's not coincidental one time off stuff - that's fairly systematic exposure to its culpability. I think if you look over this board over the years as well you will see the issues people have had with firewire interfacing and although I think it has got better I think now its lack of integration on pretty much any current PC models leaves it as a dead end for the mobile audio market anyway.

Having said that I think a lot of it obviously has to do with the caliber of the interface design as well - obviously RME aren't going to let anything out that doesn't operate like a rock and the Saffire units have always had a good rap too but I've used several that weren't up to that standard with firewire (Presonus FP10 was always a bit of a choker and the Alesis IO26 was horrible) - even the Profire is picky with what chipset it likes and I've found it on several PCs to still 'lose itself' when properly configured and have to be restarted relatively frequently.

 

[mharwood]

I've been using a Focusrite Saffire firewire interface on Windows 7 for over a year, and firewire interfaces in general for 7+ years, and have always been very happy with the performance. Never tried USB since I've had good luck with firewire, but I will echo that it is becoming more difficult to find motherboards with firewire ports, especially if you're dealing with an off-the-shelf computer. I'd be interested to try a USB 3.0 interface sometime.