First time messing with FX delays etc

[JayB]

Hey guys, this is the first time I've ever messed around with effects automation really , like in this case automating a half note delay on specific vocal lines. Vocals are double tracked all the way through, and two tracks of vocals are brought in on certain lines on their own bus etc. I tried doing this delay thing by putting a send on the stereo bus for the two main vocal lines, and then sending it to this delay , but it was causing some weird problems - like the vocals would get loud as soon as the delay was unmuted , I think it was because the delay aux is mono and the vocal aux is stereo...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2354806/Sneap Forum Mix help/Empire Delay FX Test 6 21 2012.mp3


Anyway just to get it working I tried just sending one of the vocal tracks to the delay instead of the whole vocal aux, and it seemed to work alright... if it helps anyone else I watched this tutorial on this



Let me know if I'm doing this delay thing right, and also I need to figure out how to do that reverb trick for long held screams. I tried searching but I don't know exactly what the effect is called - I assume I'll need to set up a separate fx aux with like a huge hall verb on it and automate the fader level up as I automate the vocal bus down? Or something like that? Thanks in advance guys!

 

[JayB]

Also, I really like the delays on Echoboy (which I'm using there) but I find it very strange that there is no setting for full note delays. It only goes to half note... I have to open up Pro Tools Super Long Delay or whatever it's called for full note, and it doesn't have the same character as the Echoboy stuff...

 

[lee_mulcahy]

Was the delay effect set to 100% wet? Sounds like it might not have been, so every time you un-mute the delay some dry signal would be sent through the delay channel making the vox suddenly louder? That's the first thing I would check anyway!

 

[JayB]

Was the delay effect set to 100% wet? Sounds like it might not have been, so every time you un-mute the delay some dry signal would be sent through the delay channel making the vox suddenly louder? That's the first thing I would check anyway!

Thanks, yeah I thought it was set to 100%, I'll check it a bit later though. I still don't understand why Echoboy doesn't have full note delays though, it's weird

 

[lee_mulcahy]

Just been playing around with it, seem to have come up with a work around! Unlink the Echoboy's tempo from the session's tempo, then change it to exactly half of what it was, now the 1/2 note delays will be the equivalent to full note delays in the original tempo of your song! Hope that helps dude!

 

[lee_mulcahy]

Just a thought, using this method it would be possible to use just one delay on the vox as you would anyway (well I would) for the normal parts, then when it comes to an end of a phrase you want to be full notes you could just automate Echoboy's tempo or echo time to change the delays to full note delays. Rather than having an extra delay just for the full note delays and bringing that in when needed. You could also automate it louder for the full note delays as well, seems like an easier approach to me instead of running two different delays!

 

[JayB]

Just been playing around with it, seem to have come up with a work around! Unlink the Echoboy's tempo from the session's tempo, then change it to exactly half of what it was, now the 1/2 note delays will be the equivalent to full note delays in the original tempo of your song! Hope that helps dude!

Interesting workaround, will try this out! I still find it incredibly odd that there isn't a full note option given that that's probably the most used style when it comes to effects, at least for vocals

 

[Uros]

Don't think so, 1/4 & 1/8 is what everyone and their mother use these days so it seems.

 

[lee_mulcahy]

I've gotta say I've never used full note delays before, I guess it depends the bpm you chose to record the song in. If you recorded it with double the actual tempo of the song, for example in 240bpm instead of the original tempo of 120bpm, because you wanted to hear the click play 8th notes (this should be possible anyway without changing the tempo, it is in Pro Tools anyway), then the delays will effectively be working double speed when locked to the sessions grid, so you will need to use a full note delay when in reality it represents a half note delay to the songs original tempo...if that makes any sense? If not then ignore my ramblings!

 

[JayB]

I've gotta say I've never used full note delays before, I guess it depends the bpm you chose to record the song in. If you recorded it with double the actual tempo of the song, for example in 240bpm instead of the original tempo of 120bpm, because you wanted to hear the click play 8th notes (this should be possible anyway without changing the tempo, it is in Pro Tools anyway), then the delays will effectively be working double speed when locked to the sessions grid, so you will need to use a full note delay when in reality it represents a half note delay to the songs original tempo...if that makes any sense? If not then ignore my ramblings!

Yeah I hear ya, I might be doing this totally wrong. If you watch the vid I posted in the OP that's the effect I'm going for... maybe I can try getting it done with a 1/4 note delay

 

[lee_mulcahy]

What bpm have you got the session set to btw? I make it 150bpm, I can see what you mean about the full note delays, they would work well at the end of each phrase, or half note delays would work just as well with the feedback set a bit higher to get a few more delays outta it, where are you starting the long delays btw? Personally I would include the last two words of each line and use full note delays because the last word is pushed each time, which for me sounds wierd having them delayed by themselves without moving the delays on to the 1st and 3rd beats of the following bar (rather than pushed just before those beats), there are several ways you could do that if you wanted to though!

1/4 and 1/8 delays I would say are standard for general delay but definately at least a 1/2 note delay for the throws, and going back to your first post it can definately sound kl automating the main vocal track down whilst bringing up reverb/delay to get it to sound like it's getting further away! But yer if you want the full note delays then I just tested it out along side your track and setting echoboys tempo to 75 works perfect! Did you ever work out what was causing the vocals to get suddenly louder? Looking through the EchoBoy presets seems like they pretty much all are set to 50% dry/wet by default!

 

[JayB]

What bpm have you got the session set to btw? I make it 150bpm, I can see what you mean about the full note delays, they would work well at the end of each phrase, or half note delays would work just as well with the feedback set a bit higher to get a few more delays outta it, where are you starting the long delays btw? Personally I would include the last two words of each line and use full note delays because the last word is pushed each time, which for me sounds wierd having them delayed by themselves without moving the delays on to the 1st and 3rd beats of the following bar (rather than pushed just before those beats), there are several ways you could do that if you wanted to though!

1/4 and 1/8 delays I would say are standard for general delay but definately at least a 1/2 note delay for the throws, and going back to your first post it can definately sound kl automating the main vocal track down whilst bringing up reverb/delay to get it to sound like it's getting further away! But yer if you want the full note delays then I just tested it out along side your track and setting echoboys tempo to 75 works perfect! Did you ever work out what was causing the vocals to get suddenly louder? Looking through the EchoBoy presets seems like they pretty much all are set to 50% dry/wet by default!

Thanks, I'll give this a try. As for what was making them louder, I'm not sure, I think I messed something up as far as setting up a mono delay instead of stereo or something but I fixed it.

 

[Uros]

Speaking of delays and different note values...really useful table, use it all the time

http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Pages/Beatimes .htm

 

[lee_mulcahy]

Speaking of delays and different note values...really useful table, use it all the time

http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Pages/Beatimes .htm

That's awesome, bookmarked it! Thanks dude!