Food for thought

SueNC

Southern born, metal bred
Dec 13, 2004
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this is actually taken from a Neil Boortz segment. my ENG 111 instructor gave us this to read and write a response paper on. i thought it was interesting enough to pass on.
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If we are faced with a disaster in this country, which group do we want to save? The rich or the poor? Now, if you have time, save as many people as you can. But, if you have to set some priorities, where do you go? The rich or the poor? Who is a drag on society? The rich or the poor? Who provides the jobs out there? The rich or the poor? Who fuels our economy and drives industry? The rich or the poor?

Now if all of a sudden, somebody walks up to you and says, '...You're going to have to make a choice. We're goin to move you to another country. And you're just going to have to make your way in this other country. We have a choice of two countries for you. In one country, people achieve a lot, and they are wealthy because of their hard work. In this other country, people dont achieve squat. They sit around all the time waiting for somebody else to take care of them. They have children they cant afford. They're uneducated. They can barely read. And the high point of their day is Entertainment Tonight on TV. Which country do you want to live in? The country of the high achievers or the country of sheep, the country of followers?'

You know what you're going to do. I dont see what the big problem is. I honestly dont. Who do I want to save first? The rich. Save the poor first? Then, when everything's over, where are you going to go for a job? OK, hey, if I get a tin cup, can I sit next to you and sell pencils too?

OK. I have actually crossed the bounds of political correctness and stated the obvious, that the achievers contribute more to this country than the non-achievers; that given a choice, most people would choose to live with those who achieve rather than those who sit around waiting to be taken care of.

This statement crossed one of the most inviolable lines of political correctness, the idea that some people are more valuable to our culture and society than others. The same leftist crowd that brought us multiculturalism - the idea that no one culture is better than any other culture - seek to extend that absurdity to the individual. The idea is that in the long-run all of the work that one individual might put into becoming a successful and valued member of society means nothing. The individual who is responsible for the employment, and thus the livelihood, of 250 people is no 'better' than the individual who has dedicated his or her life to ignoring education and the development of job skills and is content to live his or her life as a ward of the state in some welfare housing complex.

My statement last Friday can be best understood if you narrow it down to a simple situation involving two individuals. There's been a disaster of some type... let's say a crash. Two people are involved. Neither is a friend, but you know who both people are and what role they play in your local society. In our imaginary scenario you only have time to save one person - one, that's it. The other will die. We'll make them both black so that we can remove the racial element from this. They're also the same age. Now, one of the people involved in the crash is a local businessman. His business employs 50 people. If he dies the business dies with him, and those 50 people will be out of a job. The other person is well known in the community. He has never worked a steady job in his life. He has been content to spend his time living off the taxpayers in the local welfare housing project. Every once in a while he will work for a few days or two to earn some extra cash... only to spend that cash on booze, drugs, or some lottery tickets.

So, who do you save? All other things being equal, which one are you going to save? Dont give me nonsense about, 'I would save the one in the most peril,' or 'I would save the one nearest to where I stand.' I said, 'All other things being equal.' No fudging. Which one would you save?

Point made.
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I chose randomly. Reducing who lives or dies according to a principle of utility is morally bankrupt.
 
ZeeZooZum said:
I chose randomly. Reducing who lives or dies according to a principle of utility is morally bankrupt.

doesnt that seem like a cop out, though?

i mean, nobody is placing comparative value on human life, itself. the comparison is in one's contributions to society to anothers.
 
SueNC said:
doesnt that seem like a cop out, though?

i mean, nobody is placing comparative value on human life, itself. the comparison is in one's contributions to society to anothers.


Yes, it is a cop-out, but that thing is written in such a way that you can't but help to pick the rich people. The assumption, whether intentional or not, seems to be that the life of the rich is more important. In other words, it collapses the value of life and one's contribution to society.
 
ZeeZooZum said:
Yes, it is a cop-out, but that thing is written in such a way that you can't but help to pick the rich people. The assumption, whether intentional or not, seems to be that the life of the rich is more important. In other words, it collapses the value of life and one's contribution to society.

i guess it's all in perception.

for one thing, this was a transcript from a radio broadcast and you have to keep in mind that like most radio talk show hosts, Boortz put this out there in a manner meant to inflame his listeners.

secondly, the value of one's contributions is the point.
is the contribution of a hard working citizen, providing employment and a way to live to 50 people worth more than the contributions of a serial substance abuser living on the government dime?

personally, i'd hate to have to be in that position, of choosing to save only one of two lives.
regardless of who i chose to save, i'd forever feel regret for the life that i had to let go.
BUT, imagining the impossible and seperating my human emotions from the logical, i'd have to go with the one giving most to society, rather than taking.
 
I agree, it was a cop-out. Not all that are rich have achieved and not all that achieve are rich.
I would turn this on its head and begin there. Instead of saving the contributors, I would remove the detractors and keep what was left.
Convicted pedophiles - Gone
Al Sharpton - Gone
Extended stay welfare recipients - Gone
Joe Buck - Gone
Crack-heads - Gone
Iraq - Gone
Barbara Streisand - Gone
Any communist dictator on this planet - Gone
I could go on for days. . .
 
SueNC said:
i guess it's all in perception.

for one thing, this was a transcript from a radio broadcast and you have to keep in mind that like most radio talk show hosts, Boortz put this out there in a manner meant to inflame his listeners.

secondly, the value of one's contributions is the point.
is the contribution of a hard working citizen, providing employment and a way to live to 50 people worth more than the contributions of a serial substance abuser living on the government dime?

personally, i'd hate to have to be in that position, of choosing to save only one of two lives.
regardless of who i chose to save, i'd forever feel regret for the life that i had to let go.
BUT, imagining the impossible and seperating my human emotions from the logical, i'd have to go with the one giving most to society, rather than taking.

Why not say, for example, a honest business man who employs many vs. priest who helps the poor? That would involve a real test of one's values. I mean the way it is written now is one sided and silly.

Obviously this is just meant to inflame and counts as reason 7 million why political talk radio is stupid......
 
That is the great part about this question. It is up to you. If you think the priest is the one who should be saved, so be it. I know I would take a priest over an employer of many, if that employer was the head of the NAACP or Enron.
 
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ZeeZooZum said:
Why not say, for example, a honest business man who employs many vs. priest who helps the poor? That would involve a real test of one's values. I mean the way it is written now is one sided and silly.

Obviously this is just meant to inflame and counts as reason 7 million why political talk radio is stupid......

and there was the operative word: helps.

if he's helping the poor, he's making a contribution to society. not all contributions are monetary in nature. if he's helping the poor he's still giving something back to society, rather than taking, so i'd say that puts him on the same level as a business owner providing a way of living to other citizens.
 
SueNC said:
and there was the operative word: helps.

if he's helping the poor, he's making a contribution to society. not all contributions are monetary in nature. if he's helping the poor he's still giving something back to society, rather than taking, so i'd say that puts him on the same level as a business owner providing a way of living to other citizens.

Actually, the only contribution "helping the poor" tends to make to society is creating generations of still more mendicant pests. From whence does this nonsense about 'giving back' to society originate anyway? Giving "back" to whom - those who have themselves given nothing in the first place? What are they owed? Seems the productive are given back nothing in this model.
A business man, on the contrary, is encouraging productivity and offering a means to pull one's own weight via employment. Thus, his worth is tangible...the Priest is part of the problem not the solution. He goes...
 
If the rich person was Paris Hilton, and the poor person was Ghandi,
I'd choose the poor person.
 
Dr.TEETH said:
If the rich person was Paris Hilton, and the poor person was Ghandi,
I'd choose the poor person.

i'd agree, but again, inserting 'ifs' into the discussion makes it easier.

given the scenario presented in the Boortz piece, how would you choose?
 
SueNC said:
and there was the operative word: helps.

if he's helping the poor, he's making a contribution to society. not all contributions are monetary in nature. if he's helping the poor he's still giving something back to society, rather than taking, so i'd say that puts him on the same level as a business owner providing a way of living to other citizens.

Ohh, Sue! You get a heapin helpin of love from me on this one!

Good job in gettin these stoned hippies thinking about something other than where they dropped their lighter.

I personally believe the whole essay is a trick question. The trick is that the rich can save themselves. Cause their rich.

Listen, you know how many Iranians are kickin around my part of the world? They're all exiles from the Iranian revolution and their parents came here, wallets bulging with cash. Now Aliakbar and Mahmud are drivin Escalades to and fro, speakin perfect English and generally enjoying life. While the poor bastards in Tehran are still pressed beneath the revolution like bad wine.

So, for American at least, the correct answer is, "Save who ya can, and don't shed too many tears over the ones ya missed, because they're likely to be heroine addicts or alcoholics."

Jurched
 
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Jurched said:
Ohh, Sue! You get a heapin helpin of love from me on this one!

Good job in gettin these stoned hippies thinking about something other than where they dropped their lighter.

I personally believe the whole essay is a trick question. The trick is that the rich can save themselves. Cause their rich.

Listen, you know how many Iranians are kickin around my part of the world? They're all exiles from the Iranian revolution and their parents came here, wallets bulging with cash. Now Aliakbar and Mahmud are drivin Escalades to and fro, speakin perfect English and generally enjoying life. While the poor bastards in Tehran are still pressed beneath the revolution like bad wine.

So, for American at least, the correct answer is, "Save who ya can, and don't shed too many tears over the ones ya missed, because they're likely to be heroine addicts or alcoholics."

Jurched

YES!!
all the love i've given you and i finally get some back!! :headbang:
 
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If I had to write that paper, I'd somehow try to incorporate Oskar Schindler into it. He made a butt-load of cash from the Military Industrial Complex of Nazi Germany. Soon after, his conscience got the better of him, and he swindled his entire fortune in an attempt to save as many Jews as he could from the gas chambers. He died without a dollar to his name.
 
SueNC said:
YES!!
all the love i've given you and i finally get some back!! :headbang:

Ohh, Sue! Its hard for me to distribute the love. My wife was a Pioneer girl in the Soviet Union. She was taught the Vulcan death touch and other lethal shit at the age of 12, and she's not afraid to use it in cases of infidelity! :erk:

Jurched
 
Jurched said:
Ohh, Sue! Its hard for me to distribute the love. My wife was a Pioneer girl in the Soviet Union. She was taught the Vulcan death touch and other lethal shit at the age of 12, and she's not afraid to use it in cases of infidelity! :erk:

Jurched

sounds like a gal after my own heart.
:lol: