For all you Lady Gaga fans...

[SocialNumb]

I hope that meat goes to some better use than that . . .

 

[robfromthedeep]

to be fair how are lyrics like

"Let's play a lovegame
Play a lovegame
Do you want love?
Or you want fame?
Are you in the game?
Doin' the lovegame"

any different from any metal band's lyrics in the 80's!?

 

[Melb_shredder]

to be fair how are lyrics like

"Let's play a lovegame
Play a lovegame
Do you want love?
Or you want fame?
Are you in the game?
Doin' the lovegame"

any different from any metal band's lyrics in the 80's!?

And to be even more fair... you chose lyrics from one of her generic to be expect single releases, which can be compared to any Nickelback single that get's released in such order:

Generic rock song
Generic acoustic driven dribble
Generic but heavier rock song that has a message for everyone in it etc...

And then the album actually has some good shit on it.

Love game is a bad example for lyrics, and after listening to her album probably more than most here *educated guess not a fact haha* I think that song is what's been described already, just a generic pop bullshit song, but most of her songs actually have a lot of merit to them

Wasn't Just Dance her first hit single? Only then after initial success did they start releasing the other stuff.... She played the game and her part well.

Anyway, this is moving away from the point at hand. Get over it, there's good and shit in everything. The only reason I'm more inclined to agree with Ermz, is simply because I think it's easy to see that despite metal being almost as bad these days, there's still an aim for diversity even within just the genre differences, where pop, is just aiming for the latest fad and the lyrics get constantly recycled.

Rhianna manages to do ok, Lady Gaga is hitting pretty hard, and most of the rest are just copying again, I mean shit... did anyone catch Christina Aguilera's latest film clip/ song... it was the shittest attempt at copying lady gaga... it was pathetic... because it's just another bandwagon that's all

mind you... i feel the same about deathcore/ etc

 

[JeffTD]

Interesting. What do you think was selective about it? Anyone can look back and see that's exactly what was written. It was either a poor choice of words, or a backflip, but you can't get out saying 'naw folks, nothing to see here'.

Like I said - the post you somehow quoted 40 minutes after it was deleted contained a bit at the end about distinguishing between Lady Gaga and the stuff we're apparently discussing. You can re-read every one of my posts knowing that fact and I won't have flipped on it.

'Generic dance pop shit' may be your turn at putting words in my mouth.

Me assuming you would think Gaga is "generic dance core shit" is hardly putting words in your mouth as much as it is taking inference from your arguments.

Re: goals, you were the one originally disputing Harry's assertion that this music is superficial. Now you're saying it's supposed to be anything but? I don't understand how that paragraph is supposed to do anything other than solidify the points I've been making. I've been trying to follow a line of reasoning and arguing that you established. I never even brought metal into it until you did - it was always beside the point, yet you revert back to it as if I'm somehow trying to champion it's integrity. Let's be clear: I'm not.

Reread that paragraph. I never said it's supposed to be "anything but" - I said the exact opposite. But fair enough; we'll leave the championing of metal out of it.

Let's say dance's diametric equivalent is 'lyrics tied directly into perpetual nights on the town, skulling everything that costs more than $10 a shot, and riding all the dicks in sight until you need a good dollop of vagisil'. So where does that leave us? How many dance artists are going to deviate from singing songs about... dance... about clubbing... about nightlife? How many metal bands are going to deviate from singing/screaming about violence, gore, the occult etc.? You'll find a greater propensity amongst the metal artists to deviate from that cliche you've ascribed them, simply by virtue of all the different areas the music encompasses. Dance, by virtue of what it is... is confined to one area, one sound, more or less one type of subject matter. That subject matter is inherently shallow. This is what you originally disputed.

As far as this goes, I'll agree, with the stipulation that it'd be far fairer to compare some sub-genre of metal like black/death, given how specific a genre of pop 'dance pop' is.

But no, I was not disputing that the subject matter was inherently shallow - I've said that specifically many times. What I'm saying is that criticizing the music for being inherently shallow or lacking integrity is completely irrelevant, because that's what it's designed to be. Again, it would be like looking at an olympic marathon runner and saying "I don't think he's that great - he can't even bench very much and he's an olympic athlete?"

Not that I care, but I'm not sure if using a band that consist of self-righteous, sea shepherd-loving, neo-hippies as a representative for the upper echelon of metal music's integrity is the most balanced thing to do, but your call.

...seriously? You know what I meant. Do you not consider Gojira above most of the genre when it comes to originality, sheer songwriting ability, and even lyrical content at times? If not, that's fine, but that's exactly what I was trying to say about my feelings towards Lady Gaga with the analogy.

Not sure I follow here. You seem to be associating me with some agenda I don't have... I don't see myself as 'above' anything...

I’m associating you with no agenda other than the one you presented in your very first post in this thread.

You don’t see yourself as above anything? How else am I supposed to take this quote?

This is about more thought than I would've wanted to give to this scene of music for a lifetime, so I'm happy to call it a day.

You not wanting to give more than half a threads worth of thought to a genre in your entire lifetime is supposed to be indicative anything else than you being above it?

The reason I selectively responded to your post is because I'm rapidly losing wind and desire to continue this self-defeating line of arguing. I've tried to be more thorough this time, in the hopes that it appeases you. Assuming that the way I've closed every post here with is somehow self-aggrandizing, what exactly would I have to do in order to call it a day in a form that's agreeable to you?

You just have to end a post with a statement that doesn't patronize or subtly assert a position of authority. The post I quoted above about how much thought you’d give to the genre is most definitely self-aggrandizing, and you citing a need to appease me is mocking, at best.

This entire thing has more or less become an argument over semantics rather than actual content at this point, though - no use perpetuating that.

 

[Dimaura]

cool.


scrolling

scrolling

"Ive got no place to go" haha

scrolling

scrolling

hmm. did anyone else have an issue actually downloading the vocal stems?

 

[UtopianCrux]

Interesting convo... as teeth-gritting as these things get, there's always something to get out of them.

Frankly, there's a lot of good points here on both sides of the fence... and I can say I actually "get" a lot of aspects of pop music. I'm certainly one of those who puts songwriting (which pop hardly has a monopoly on, by the fucking way ) over raw ability... and I probably have a more of a love affair with production quality (which pop most definitely has) and the oft overlooked choice in tones/sounds (which pop most definitely lacks) over chops too, in many cases.

That said, I don't get what makes Gaga's music (image-hype notwithstanding) so special. You can tell she has adequate musical ability, but others like Aguilera are quite obviously better, and BT even said the oft scorned Britney positively nailed it in the studio tot he point where her doubles had to be retracked because they were too good to get the effect out of them. I guess it'd be easier if I was down with this particular breed of pop music. I guess I'll stay out of it for once, and listen to one of her songs again for whatever nuance(s) that it is that I'm overlooking.

It's interesting though. Pop music has become a very painfully narrow experience. I don't think its so much about being musically sophisticated or not... and/or a case of being uber poignant vs. sophomoric or whatever, but the range of experiences doled out by the genre depresses me... and I believe it to be markedly American phenomenon, which, unfortunately, we're the benchmark for a lot of the world. I was having a conversation with the singer/guitarist/songwriter for a really good local band here in Portland, strangeletter (who aren't metal at all, more of a lightly proggy, post-new-wave thing... very synth and vocal driven) and he said something that I have observed pretty hard in the last decade, "Nobody wants to hear dark music in America..." Not meaning goth or metal, but nothing dark... at all. Phil Collins' 'In The Air Tonight' wouldn't fly in 2010, you know? Pop America still loves tragic movies of betrayal, TV episodes full of conspiracy, horror flicks full of vile shit, or introspective mind-fucks like Inception... but other than crybaby "my girl/boy left me" songs, pop has diluted down to feel good shit and nothing else.

Music is treated like it's doing something wrong if it's trying to play any other role anymore... which I find fuckall weird. We live in uncertain and depressed times, and while escape is good, historically, the music mirroring the experience has been (empathetically) dour during depression and whatnot.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

just wanted to say that I love the fuck out of gaga AND kesha, and fuck any "true metal" person who tries to argue that I'm a braindead moron for doing so.

compare the lyrics on love game to any fucking cock rock/metal song from the 80s. the vast majority of metal lyrics are meandering, meaningless bullshit. the same could be said for pop. whats the big deal? who gives a fuck?

not everyone has the attention span to listen to a 25 minute avant-garde prog fusion jazz metal masterpiece.

 

[EerieVon]

I can't believe there's an argument in this forum about Gaga

 

[paladin shredder]

everything

+1, glad to see someone new actually making some sense.

 

[Melb_shredder]

It's not a GaGa argument anymore haha. It's about pop music in general... And without talking bullshit or whatever, it's essentially pop being the idiots music and whether or not that's the case here etc...

I find my own limits with it though being the lyrics too. Most of the most is catchy and repetitive enough that it sticks in my head. This is probably the reason I find Melodic Death Metal to be my favorite genre of metal, it's definitely got that catchy aspect... But probably 5% of any pop lyrics I hear are not about going out, getting smashed as much as possible, picking up bitches on the floor with that booty that they'd got from der momma and ima bust a cap in that guy if he tries take her from me..."

Honestly... In there is about 90% of the lyrical content for most pop/ "rnb" in today's music...

It's the 2010 of glam metal... That's really the exact same shit rewrapped for the youth culture of today.

Again, it has it's place, but when those sorts of themes are regurgitated time and time again, you wonder why people think it's a realistic lifestyle??

 

[jipchen]

Honestly Ermz and Jeff: your discussion is tiresome

As for me, I do enjoy quite some pop acts, I can also listen to "just dance" without discomfort.. but "Love Game" is actually real bad.
It's so bad it makes me feel physically discomfortable. There's just not even a single emotion or nice melody. Just plain shittiness
Allthough I love good lyrics, the lyrics are not the most important part of the music to me. It's the emotion. This song has none.

PS: LOL she probably got about a trillion dollars from Campari for the music video.

 

[Sickan]

This thread makes me feel ashamed of being part of the metal community.
I bet the majority of metalheads are more stupid (just as stupid at least) than people who love radio music.

 

[jipchen]

This thread makes me feel ashamed of being part of the metal community.
I bet the majority of metalheads are more stupid (just as stupid at least) than people who love radio music.

Statistically (at least in Germany) the most intelligent pupils listen to metal
You're right though, I think they are the most narrow-minded and ignorant people when it comes to "other" music.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Just chiming in to show my support for pretty much everything Ermz wrote - I like tons of non-metal stuff (granted, most of it is progressive rock, fusion, or 80s pop/rock ), but putting aside any social commentary, the simple fact is I just plain don't like most modern pop as music, and to pretend otherwise for the sake of having some superficial bonding moment with acquaintances I only have a minimal amount in common with (or for getting laid) would make me feel untrue, not to metal or any "scene", but to myself, and I don't think there's anything so condemnable or closed-minded about that.

Personally, I think it's impossible to have strong feelings on music you like without having equally strong feelings on music you don't, simply as music (again ignoring any other sociological factors).

 

[GarethSE]

It's the case with most people.
Ask them to write about why they like something and ask them for a certain number of words and they'll struggle.
Ask them to write about why they think something sucks and they'll go way over the word limit, then keep going because they can't stop themselves.

 

[lilhermiejobo]

I remember getting all worked up over what other people thought of music when I was in Jr and Sr High School. I guess my life's focus has shifted onto other areas because, frankly, I don't really give a damn if another person doesn't particularly like a certain music I may be enjoying at the time. There are periods where I can't stand to listen to metal at all to the point that the sound of distorted guitars just pisses me off and ruins a perfectly good mood. Other times, I love the stuff and can't listen to anything BUT metal.
I strongly believe that music is an extended interpretation on life, stemming from multiple sources, agendas, purposes, etc. Whether it is purely to make money or whether it is because you enjoy sitting under a tree watching a sunset, it represents a part of your life at that time. Since life is a roller coaster of experiences full of emotions, music can ultimately only mimic that, hence being an extension of life.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

It's the case with most people.
Ask them to write about why they like something and ask them for a certain number of words and they'll struggle.
Ask them to write about why they think something sucks and they'll go way over the word limit, then keep going because they can't stop themselves.

If that's true, then I guess I'm an exception, since I have no problem going nuts over stuff I love (remember this thread? )

 

[TesticleMilkshake]

If that's true, then I guess I'm an exception, since I have no problem going nuts over stuff I love (remember this thread? )

Who the hell DOESN'T love counterpoint??? It's like the first drag on that one cigarette smoked in bed after beautiful lovemaking with a sex goddess.

 

[The Unavoidable]

I fucking love Gaga. I love her style , love her vocals etc...

 

[MEGA DAVE]

You guys make me laugh. haha. All opinions of the genre aside, this was posted just as a reference. I love me some metal but it's nice every now and then to see how the other side is doing things. Take all your opinions aside and take this thread for what it was meant; to see how things are done with the bigger engineers and the differences from how they mix to how we mix and possibly gain usable knowledge from it, also as a bonus they're downloadable stems with which we can tinker with.