Gays can't marry in Cali or whatever.

[cookiecutter]

I am really disappointed about this. There is no good reason to discriminate against gays. Since there is a separation of church and state in America, whether or not some backwards people think traditional marriage is a sacred thing, that does not matter. What does matter is that the government is denying a legal right to a group of people for no good reason. It is bigotry and I am sure as time goes on we will overcome this bigotry, just as we overcame one of the biggest hurdles last night.

 

[seedofvengeance]

Letting homosexuals have a document that says they're married doesn't destroy the standard family unit. The gay families already exist, giving them a document proving it doesn't effect anything. There is absolutely no plausible reason to oppose that proposition.
edit: or say yes to it... whichever one meant they couldn't.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

*clap*

 

[Alter]

Regardless of religion, the family unit where people have kids and raise them is the fundamental unit that makes this country strong. Yes, it is faltering, and society is feeling the effects. Doesn't mean it is time to change what it is.

No, are you saying that gays are unable to run a family due to who they love? So a wife-beating, drunken, man-woman family is better than a clean and healthy gay family?

 

[waif]

Can't argue with some of these points. Still, I prefer to keep marriage and traditional family as "sacred" and as the cornerstone of our society.

1. if it's a cornerstone of our society then shouldn't we crack down on sex outside of wedlock rather than homosexuals, who aren't going to have kids anyways? Just saying, straight people making babies and not marrying definitely damages the institution of marriage more than gay people.
2. That's your religion speaking. Laws based purely on religion are not compatible with separation of church and state - I hope you realize this.

@Trendkill: Not slavery, but probably about equal with not letting women or blacks vote, yeah.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

WAIF shoots, scores.

 

[AchrisK]

I will not say my beliefs have nothing to do with my views, but even apart from that, the whole thing doesn't make sense. It's not natural. I am not saying that the love between two people is not real or genuine. But even evolution says male + female = survival. The outie goes into the innie, and it produces offspring. And don't reply with talk of overpopulation, because I am merely addressing the "natural" and "intended" design that we have before us (weather by nature or by Creator). So homosexuality is not the norm. Well, we are humans with free will, so of course people will not be limited by what the "norm" is, and that is their choice. But since the family is the cornerstone unit of a strong society, I believe it should have a special place. It should be what it is, and if something else comes along, it can be something else. There can be similarities, but it is not the same. There are things that I don't like about it becoming combined with norm. It will start to be viewed as an option that is just as acceptable as the normal, natural option. People will begin choosing it, not based on feeling they can't seem to deny, but because it is just one of their choices. I don't want my kid (or anyone's kid) being indoctrinated in school that homosexuality is one of two valid choices. If my kid comes home one day saying he is gay, I will still love and accept him. But that is not my desire for my kid. I am all for homosexuals being accepted as people, just like anyone else, but I am not for homosexuality being accepted as a norm, because I believe it is not a norm. I will not put my stamp of approval on a lifestyle I think is unnatural, and I prefer that my country not embrace this unnatural lifestyle as the same as the traditional family.

I know you're all going to FREAK OUT. I can hear the veins in your necks already bursting. But this is how I feel, and how I believe.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

How can you even live?

There's just so much wrong with what you believe. Humans who think clearly and make use of their brains disagree with you on everything. Animals can be homosexual. Heterosexuality is not, necessarily, the "natural" so stop making shit up and do some research. It's not like if we let gay people marry we will stop surviving...

Also read this...IT'S BY A REAL LIFE CHRISTIAN WHO SOMEHOW MANAGED TO PUT HIS BELIEF IN GOD AND HIS BELIEF IN CIVIL RIGHTS OF HUMAN BEINGS (which gay people still are tbh) TOGETHER TO MAKE SOMETHING RATIONAL!

http://news.google.com/news?btcid=3470a2c45010e263

Comment by The Rt. Rev. Marc Andrus, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of California
google news commentA Change in Consciousness - 22 hours ago

The people who were born after the Apollo pictures of the Earth seen from space represent the first people who will fully inhabit a new consciousness. Those of us, like myself, who took this amazing picture in as someone already living on the Earth, had to learn this consciousness; for those born after me it is their birthright.

The recognition of the civil rights of lesbian, gay, transgendered and bisexual people is part of the broad shift in consciousness towards which we are moving. Same-sex marriage in California is an important vehicle in the on-going work of making sure all American citizens enjoy the same rights in civil society.

This shift in consciousness, including same-sex marriage, is a move towards the good. I affirm this from a spiritual, religious point of view. As a Christian, I view the trajectory of history as moving us towards global reconciliation and global justice. The Gospels tell us that Jesus said that God's love is pervasive. He used the idea of rain and sunshine, both of which fall on all the world, irrespective of people's prejudices about who is deserving or who is not.

If Proposition 8 passes, which I hope it does not, those of us committed to civil rights for all will simply continue to hope, and continue to work. Perseverance, knowing that God continues to travel with those who are disenfranchised, is a path we know. I trust, however, that the great Californians with whom I live will continue their tradition of forging ahead towards what lies before our whole great country.

Achrisk...I want to ask you something. Since all of the awful things your God has done to humanity over the course of ages, and aeons if you believe he created the world and all of the incredibly horrible viruses that exist and torment human lives every waking hour of every day, all of which you are lucky to not suffer from, are all part of his divine plan...don't you think maybe...JUST MAYBE...gay people getting married are part of his plan too? Do you think, maybe, that the gay people are put here to test us to see if we will be kind to them, to offer them rights, to give them refuge in a social construct that benefits them contrary to God...just so God can test you to see if you're worthy? If we're worthy? The truth is that you have no fucking idea.

Think clearly; get your head out of God's asshole and defend your beliefs logically. You're making no sense.

 

[AchrisK]

1. if it's a cornerstone of our society then shouldn't we crack down on sex outside of wedlock rather than homosexuals, who aren't going to have kids anyways? Just saying, straight people making babies and not marrying definitely damages the institution of marriage more than gay people.

a) I am not asking anyone to "crack down" on homosexuality.

b) The part about gays not having kids is part of what separates homosexual relationships from being the same as marriage. I feel marriage should hold a special place.

c) I do believe that sex outside of marriage is a problem, and I do believe society is suffering because of it. But people have the right to do it, and you're not going to take that away from them. Just as homosexuals have the right to do what they want.

2. That's your religion speaking. Laws based purely on religion are not compatible with separation of church and state - I hope you realize this.

Yes, I would say that my morality is influenced by me beliefs. But just because the Bible says not to murder, doesn't mean that "state" should not have a law against murder. Moral principals are typically not arbitrary, and I believe a society that embraces strong morals is a stronger society.

 

[AchrisK]

How can you even live?

How can you be so narrow minded? I mean, you guys think I am some kind of hateful bigot, but if you would read what I say, you would see I have no hate for people who I disagree with. I am not out there trying to beat up gays or call them names. I accept people as people. I will receive so much more hate for my views, which again do not include hate, than I will ever give. So what is important? How we treat our fellow man, or how much we agree with him? Get some balance!

 

[waif]

But since the family is the cornerstone unit of a strong society

According to you. I challenge you to make a convincing case for this.

Aside from which, homosexuals can raise children and studies have shown they do a better job of it (at least from a material perspective) than heterosexual couples, and offer a more stable environment in general, so the family being a cornerstone of a strong society says nothing about homosexuals. Unless you define a family as a man, a woman, and 3.14 little blond haired, blue eyed boys and girls.

I don't want my kid (or anyone's kid) being indoctrinated in school that homosexuality is one of two valid choices.

There's strong evidence homosexuality is a genetic trait. I don't believe it's a choice. I really don't believe anyone makes a choice to be gay. And it's not taught in schools, if you were wondering.

 

[Valerie]

This issue is about gay couples having marriages recognized under the law, not under the church. Your religious beliefs have no place here. End of discussion.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

I will not say my beliefs have nothing to do with my views, but even apart from that, the whole thing doesn't make sense. It's not natural.

Hardly un-natural bud, since homosexuality is seen in various species of animals. Get with the program, people should stop fuckin' with other people's business. If gay people want to get married, then let them be.

 

[waif]

b) The part about gays not having kids is part of what separates homosexual relationships from being the same as marriage. I feel marriage should hold a special place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_insemination#Human_artificial_insemination

 

[Death Aflame]

It is pretty hilarious that America still hasn't 'legalized' gay marriage in many states--there is no good argument against it.

I mean if you are a religious leader and you disagree with the idea on religious grounds, than okay you should maintain the right to not marry gay couples if you so desire (freedom of religion and all that). However, gay marriage should still be possible through the state or religious organizations who choose to accept it.

 

[Valerie]

It is pretty hilarious that America still hasn't 'legalized' gay marriage in many states--there is no good argument against it.

I mean if you are a religious leader and you disagree with the idea on religious grounds, than okay you should maintain the right to not marry gay couples if you so desire (freedom of religion and all that). However, gay marriage should still be possible through the state or religious organizations who choose to accept it.

.

 

[AchrisK]

According to you. I challenge you to make a convincing case for this.

Man + woman = kids. Kids raised by loving families = mostly healthy. Healthy boy kid + healthy girl kid = new family. On it goes. Even messed up people can get together and have a good marriage and raise good kids. Families taking care of each other is good for society. Parents caring for kids. Kids growing up and caring for their parents. These are good things.

Aside from which, homosexuals can raise children and studies have shown they do a better job of it (at least from a material perspective) than heterosexual couples, and offer a more stable environment in general, so the family being a cornerstone of a strong society says nothing about homosexuals. Unless you define a family as a man, a woman, and 3.14 little blond haired, blue eyed boys and girls.

What do studies show? That homosexual couples make more money, on average? That means little. But I don't doubt that some homosexual couples would raise kids better than many straight couples. But gays can't make kids, so that's not the typical, natural family unit. What percentage of gay couples say they want to, or strive to have kids? Is having kids the norm within gay couples? I would assume it is much more common in lesbian couples, since women have natural, biological desires towards motherhood (as opposed to men who have a more emotional desire toward fatherhood, or not).

There's strong evidence homosexuality is a genetic trait. I don't believe it's a choice. I really don't believe anyone makes a choice to be gay. And it's not taught in schools, if you were wondering.

Well, that is why in my other post I talked about it becoming more of a choice as it becomes more normal in society. I wasn't saying it was a choice for everyone who is homosexual. I know that it some people get those feelings from who knows where.

 

[AchrisK]

Hardly un-natural bud, since homosexuality is seen in various species of animals. Get with the program, people should stop fuckin' with other people's business. If gay people want to get married, then let them be.

But it's not the norm. It's not how species stay around. It's not the way nature works. Yeah, some animals may attempt or have same-sex sex. But do they pair off as alternative lifestyle life partners? I don't mean an example of small percentages. I am talking norm.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Man + woman = kids. Kids raised by loving families = mostly healthy. Healthy boy kid + healthy girl kid = new family. On it goes. Even messed up people can get together and have a good marriage and raise good kids. Families taking care of each other is good for society. Parents caring for kids. Kids growing up and caring for their parents. These are good things.

Hardly a convincing case knowing that all world is going to hell due to over-population. China anyone?

But it's not the norm. It's not how species stay around. It's not the way nature works. Yeah, some animals may attempt or have same-sex sex. But do they pair off as alternative lifestyle life partners? I don't mean an example of small percentages. I am talking norm.

There is an utmost difference between humans and animals, and that is ''feelings''. The only purpose that sex(or partnership) fulfills in animals is reproduction (and depleting their horny-ness meter), yet they still practice homosexuality, therefore making it natural. We as humans have other intentions when we pair off, some want kids, while others just strive for companionship. As these other elements come into play, our manner of judging this equation should be different, making your argument completely off-base.

 

[AchrisK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_insemination#Human_artificial_insemination

Like I said (though I was typing as you posted this (I am slow). I don't doubt that some homosexuals, especially lesbians, would desire to have chillins. But do you see the word "artificial" in artificial insemination? It's not the natural, normal way.