GENE SIMMONS of KISS: "The record industry is dead."

[adaher]

I agree that downloading is wrong, BTW. We should only listen to music under conditions the artist and the label set, within reasonable limits(telling us we can't put our songs on an Ipod is BS).

I'm just disputing the argument that it's hurting artists. It's like saying that VCRs hurt movie theaters, which is why the whole thing went to the Supreme Court in the 80s.

A person who downloads something and sends it to their friends creates potential customers. You may think it's wrong because it's without the artist's consent, and I agree with you, but there are benefits to it.

And these artists who made their name 99% because of the internet(which includes most metal artists today) need to get over it. You can't take advantage of all the good the internet does for your career while complaining that very same internet is destroying your career. The internet is what it is. The technology that makes it so much easier to reach the masses without having to get on a major label also can be used to steal your shit. It's a double-edged sword.

Besides, there's a very easy solution. Stop sending out the fucking promos! Those are what gets your album on the torrent sites two months before it comes out! Frontiers releases almost never end up on torrent sites until weeks after their release date, by which time most of the people who wanted the album bought it. I don't know for a fact that Frontiers doesn't send out promos, but I know that my company doesn't get them, and we get promos from everyone else.

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

I just say these words and I know I am scary right no matter WHAT opinion some people have: Each and everyone of you who think illegal downloading "saved" metal or in general is "good" or "helps" bands will sadly not wake up and understand the reality of their actions and the horrible outcome because of the illegal downloading until it's too late. I can't in any way understand why some people are trying to justify themselves because of their downloading. The bottom line is, It is theft no matter what and it really does hurt bands (especially bands that the majority in this board listens to). It's really horrible that this subject even have 2 sides.....as I said....people will learn when it's too late (mark my words). Where did all good bands go??? Why don't they come to my country for shows??? Why don't they release new albums??? etc etc etc...these are questions that many people will ask in a not too distant future...

Some people say "oh, if it weren't for downloading I wouldn't find that band etc" and "CD's are to expensive" is bullshit!! Of course people find new bands on the internet but, since people prefer downloading it for free the bands and labels will not survive for long....
Some like Gene Simmons...some don't but, no matter what you think of him he is so 100% right on this...

I'm going to say this once and then that's it because I don't feel like arguing this subject anymore.

The fact remains that we do not have a machine that can read minds. Until we do have said machine, we will never be able to tell what the intent of the consumer is. How do we know that everyone who downloads music over the internet would have paid for the album had the internet not existed? We don't. Until we do find this out, it's not stealing.

 

[Creeps]

A real job

Not saying it's entirely bad for a band to enjoy financial benefits from being in a band but when its more than the passion of writing the music, fuck em :O

spoken like someone who has never tried making a living off being in a band. no offense

the entertainment industry is one tough nut to crack. There's a lot of "it's not just who you know it's who you blow" as well. Anyone who has been in ANY type of music related field can attest to that. I've been involved in every aspect of the industry on a small scale - that's where you start. Guess what? I'm not anymore. Sometimes you have to know when to throw in the towel.

Being in a band and playing local clubs barely pays the gas money for your trip to the gig.

Once these bands get signed and make money (the select few) they have EVERY RIGHT to be PISSED off at downloaders. You work your ass off in the shitholes of your given location for years, finally catch a break and see your album leaked online with 200+ seeders? Money out of your pocket... period.


//edit -- just thought of something //

Let's say you're at work and your boss goes, ok I'm giving you said amount of $$$ for you to do your job today, but if anyone else comes along and does your job without your permission (and you cannot stop them) you get less money on your paycheck.

How would you feel?

 

[P-roggy]

If everyone dowloaded and then bought the albums they like then I guess it would be "ok" but, the reality is different no matter what you say. Most of the people today keeps their music in their computer and never buy the real album. That's the way it is. It doesn't have to do with shitty popular music. The problem is that illegal downloading is so easy, accessable and comfortable...
No matter how you turn and twists it it really does hurt the bands in the end. The labels (good or bad) doesn't sell enough albums anymore which results in lesser paid advantages to bands and their recording sessions. Promotion suffers as well. There are so many things that is suffering because of illegal downloading. Labels don't have the economy to arrange tours anymore they way they did back in the day. Many bands have to "pay" for doing live shows instead of "getting paid" for it.

 

[TheWhisper]

Gene Simmons is the fuckin' man!

 

[Petethedrummer]

very interesting...

 

[halcyonwayband@aol.com]

I'm going to say this once and then that's it because I don't feel like arguing this subject anymore.

The fact remains that we do not have a machine that can read minds. Until we do have said machine, we will never be able to tell what the intent of the consumer is. How do we know that everyone who downloads music over the internet would have paid for the album had the internet not existed? We don't. Until we do find this out, it's not stealing.

This is absolutely retarded logic.

 

[rms]

How do you prove his logic wrong?

 

[DoomsdayZach]

This is absolutely retarded logic.

So you go by the "guilty until proven innocent" school of thought?

 

[spag]

While I still spend a decent amount of money every year on music, where I spend it has shifted a lot.

I don't spend nearly as much on albums as I used to, and yes, that is because of downloading, but not how you might think at first. It's because I don't blind buy nearly as much music as I used to. I've bought so much pure shit over the years, stuff I never listened to past the first pass, and I suppose that was feeding the music industry. Even before downloading, my buying had changed because there were more stores I could go to and listen to stuff before I bought it.

On a yearly basis, there still aren't THAT many albums I purchase. Why? Because I rarely buy back catalog stuff...because I have most everything I want already. My only music purchased now is new stuff that comes out.

Now, I bet I spend more per year on music than I ever spent in albums, but it's on going to concerts and festivals. I'm in for a few thousand this year alone on tickets and travel to go to shows, and that's even after canceling my Wakken plans because of work. Now admittedly, that isn't all going to the bands, but neither was it when I bought more albums.

 

[Ascension]

I pretty much entirely disagree. The death of the music industry is because popular music is getting shittier. It boils down to this: if you like music, you should buy the album. Buying the album indirectly supports the artist because you buy the album to support the label, the label says "hey this artist is selling a lot of albums" and puts more of their financial resources into them. If you want to support a band directly, go to a show and buy their merch at the merch table or from their online shop.

If i download smoething like, say, the new Lamb of God, listen to it once and go "hey, this sucks, i'll never listen to this again" and it either sits on my hard drive forever or gets deleted, that is not something i feel bad about. You suggest that if i want to fulfill my curiosity about a band i'm going to hate, i should shell out $15.99 (plus tax or shipping or whatever) to have an experience that is ultimately useless for anything other than me deciding this is not an artist i want to support. Why should i spend 20 dollars to hate something when i can preview it and make an informed decision? With the sheer number of bands these days, it's necessary to "try before you buy" if you will. What difference does it make if i do it online or go to a friend's house and listen to their copy when teh result is ultimately the same

Right. It wasn't that long ago that you bought an album, cassette, cd, etc. on "blind faith"...be that name recognition, reviewer in a rock mag said it was great, etc.. Hell l've bought before because the album cover looked cool. Only to play these purchases & discover maybe 2 good songs & craploads of filler. Millions or billions of dollars have been spent on bad releases by even the greatest of bands...Gene Simmons' band in particular. Sorry ass suspect bands have been on the scene for years...and there are even more now. But, now we have the pleasure of previewing their material via downloading, myspace, etc. and these cds aren't being bought as they would have been "blindly" in the past. And these bands/artists wonder why they aren't selling? Bullshit...they know.

 

[P-roggy]

Myspace is a good way to pre-listen to songs by a band but, illegal downloading is still wrong. Before internet I used to listen to the albums I was about to buy in the recordstore. As far as I know you still can do that and as far as I know you can listen to plenty of soundclips in various netstores as well so, you're still wrong about this. It kills the indusryt no matter how you try to justify it. If everybody bought the albums they liked everything would be cool I guess but, reality is not that way.

 

[Firehead]

Like Ascension and DZ said, only the bands that put out shit music care that you DL their music. It puts a damper on peeps blind buying their shit music and basically jacking your cash right out of your pocket for no reason.

Fuck Metallica, fuck Queensryche, fuck Kiss, fuck all those washed-up old bags who can't play shit anymore. Moneygrubbing cunts, all of them.

 

[Diabolik]

I am old fashion and rather buy a CD. I like having the artwork, lyrics and the whole package. I guess you could really blame everybody involved...from bands releasing bad disc, high prices of CD's from labels, to the people who download everything. We live in a world where it is easy now to put out your own CD and sell it yourself if you wanted. Back in the old days it was a tougher thing to do..since there was no internet.

I basically use the web for finding new bands all the time. I have been a sucker for those YouTube comps that people make of different bands. I have found some great bands that way. Or just searching through myspace. I do have the luxury of having a Metal CD shop within walking distance so I can look around there and if something catches my eye...I can walk home and check out a few songs online though their site or myspace and if it is good. I walk back and buy it. I am also an impulse buyer...if something looks good...I usually pick it up.

I never have or never will download anything and burn it to disc. Everything I have is the real deal. I am sure over time the formats will change and everything will be digital. But till then....I will be one of the few who love CD shopping. I love the thrill of the hunt!!!

 

[Mr. Zane of HW]

Gene Simmons is 100% right about illegal downloading. And everyone, by now , knows that it is stealing. I think i love Jon Schaeffer's word about it, this is not verbatim, but was like, "I spent all my time and money to create this and make very little money back and you want it for free? Fuck you."
He is right ,it's a buisness, not a charity. And the fact i agree with that does not make my art any less sincere.

 

[Mr. Zane of HW]

Also, to preview an artist, you need not download illegally. Most bands have free shit evrywhere for preview and review purposes, so filesharing is completely unecessary.

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

This is absolutely retarded logic.

It absolutely is not. And the fact you simply shoot it off as "retarded" without even attempting to debunk it simply proves my argument and makes you look like a zombie that buys into the RIAA's propaganda.

Everyone seems to think that P2P networks are harming the industry. Ayreon even makes a nod to this assumption on the new album, meanwhile that album is the best selling Ayreon to date. Gotta love irony.

Oh and I forgot to mention how much I laughed at Gene's comment about how "nobody decides how rich I can get but me". I beg to differ, you pompous asshole. If you didn't have fans you'd be working at Home Depot.

 

[spag]

I am old fashion and rather buy a CD. I like having the artwork, lyrics and the whole package.

See, that's how I felt in the days of LPs. CDs took a lot of that away from me. The younger here might not remember, but how fucking cool was it to come home and put on Physical Graffiti, and play with and read all the liner notes and check out the cover. I loved the album covers. These days, I can't even read most of the crap that comes with a CD without a magnifying glass. It's only the occasional cool box set that is really worth it to me.

The only reason I like CDs now is getting the music in a lossless format. Once I rip them, they go in a box to never be seen again, and I hate lugging those boxes around. If I could buy lossless, non DRMed music, I would do that in a heartbeat.

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

So you go by the "guilty until proven innocent" school of thought?

Apparently.

How un-American.

 

[dcowboys311]

Also, to preview an artist, you need not download illegally. Most bands have free shit evrywhere for preview and review purposes, so filesharing is completely unecessary.

So it's perfectly fine to judge an entire album based off of a few 30-second soundclips or, at best, 1 or 2 songs from them album? That goes right back to the whole argument that people don't want to spend $15 for 2 good songs and 8 filler tracks. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "trying before you buy" as long as you follow through with that purchase.