You are summing up exactly what I've been trying to say. You are 120% right and that's a fact....a horrible fact!!
Hey friends,
Here are some facts coming from a guy in the industry (me):
Illegal downloading hurts the bands and the labels very much. I don't care if you call it "downloading to check it out before a purchase" or simply "downloading to avoid paying for a cd". Fact remains that 1 less album sold = less $$ for the labels -ergo for the bands. Some downloaders have honest intentions, some don't. But trust me that the bands feel this problem very much!
Studio recordings have NOT gotten cheaper over the years. In fact the good producers get more expensive, while the record labels pay smaller advances to their bands because of declining sales. So - if a band is left with a deficit after the album is done, then how many times do you honestly think this will happen before the band says 'goodbye people'....?
Good music comes from passion. But bringing that passion to the masses costs a lot of money. This money has to come from somewhere, and if people decide to not pay for the albums, then we are back at the deficit problem. I've read in multiple places that some people think good music should not be about money -and money should not be the motivator. Well, to me that's the same as saying good work should not be paid for - hello!! That's not how this world works!. The expenses for producing the music remain, and wouldn't you want to get paid for something that you spent a year preparing and producing??? There's still a LOT of work involved in every decent production - passion for the music doesn't change that. Many bands and labels will cease to exist if this problem continues...... Don't kid yourselves - it's already happening. I guess most of you know the cover artist Mattias Noren, who's responsible for so many great metal covers. Well, do you think he closed his business just for fun........? Bands in this genre are taking a financial beating, he's one of the related people feeling it.
Michael Kammeyer
GENE SIMMONS of KISS: "The record industry is dead."
- Thread starter Stingray11214
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dcowboys311
Member
That's where the fault in your argument lies. I'd be willing to say that the majority of people who download your album are people who have never even heard a note of your music. People who have simply found out about your band through a link, friend's recommendation, or simply seeing that your band is a metal band. These people would have never even found out about your band if it weren't for the download, so they obviously wouldn't have been purchasing the product to begin with. Yeah, if they enjoy the album but keep the download, then it's wrong, but nobody in this topic disagrees with that so no point in arguing. But if they simply download the album to give it a listen, decide they don't like it, and delete it, that's perfectly fine. It goes back to the whole "test drive a car before you buy it" argument.
dcowboys311
Member
Stop acting like this is a black and white argument. It isn't. There are many, many shades of gray.
...AndTimeBegan
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...AndTimeBegan
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I have no idea how any band or label can say that. You don't sell up to par with what YOU think so therefore someone is downloading and stealing your CD sales? How do you know this? Please, I'd love to hear from each fan that downloaded your album that they otherwise would have bought it.
You may as well hold all 6 billion people on the planet for not buying the album then. It's a ridiculous argument.
BTW I don't mean to offend you I'm just throwing in my 2 cents. For the record I do own both of your albums and I plan to buy the 3rd when it comes out. I GUARANTEE that your next album with Mr. Barlow will be the highest selling Pyramaze album to date and then hopefully we won't hear this argument from you again
.This is the wrong forum to discuss this obviously since here are so many people with "knowledge" about this subject here. I am sure (atleast hope) that 95% of the users here in this forum buys their albums that they like but, what I'm trying to say is that most of the downloaders don''t buy the albums they download. They prefer the file format instead of a clumpsy Compact Disc and then pay for it as well...they think "why"? The music is so accessable on the internet and very neat to download and listen to the music through the computer instead. That is what is killing the industry...why can't you understand that....especially since you seem to have knowledge about it??? Haven't you read this outcome by googling??
You guys in this forum seems to be really cool people and I don't wanna make any enemies...I'm just trying to state a fact....which obviously is a useless attempt since it seems like "I know nothing". We'll continue this discussion again in a year or so and we'll see what has happened...
NP: Royal Hunt - Paradox (God damn great album)
You guys in this forum seems to be really cool people and I don't wanna make any enemies...I'm just trying to state a fact....which obviously is a useless attempt since it seems like "I know nothing". We'll continue this discussion again in a year or so and we'll see what has happened...
NP: Royal Hunt - Paradox (God damn great album)
PyramazeGuitar
METAL
I have no idea how any band or label can say that. You don't sell up to par with what YOU think so therefore someone is downloading and stealing your CD sales? How do you know this? Please, I'd love to hear from each fan that downloaded your album that they otherwise would have bought it.
You may as well hold all 6 billion people on the planet for not buying the album then. It's a ridiculous argument.
BTW I don't mean to offend you I'm just throwing in my 2 cents. For the record I do own both of your albums and I plan to buy the 3rd when it comes out. I GUARANTEE that your next album with Mr. Barlow will be the highest selling Pyramaze album to date and then hopefully we won't hear this argument from you again
Well, i think i have been partially misunderstood. I never said that for every download we sell one less album. Actually i said that "some downloaders have honest intentions - and some don't". What i was saying is, that 1 less album sold *that would otherwise have been bought was it not for free downloads* = less money for the band/label. And that is the essence of it. I guess nobody can argue with that...!?
I was simply trying to explain things from a bands point of view, as the person in the thread above me asked for. But come on, how would you explain that a band that usually sells 100.000 copies per album suddenly sells only 30.000 copies - but their fan base is still expanding...?? And I'm not talking about Pyramaze, but just throwing around some statistics for you to think about. These statistics are made by the labels, and the only explanation for the decreasing sales is pirate downloading.
As someone also stated, this is not all black and white, but the essence of the problem remains the same.
And thanks for BUYING our albums
People who say "the Record Industry is Dead" are probably the same people who 'know' that man is causing global warming now, and also 'knew' that those guys in the 70s were right when they said that we were on the brink of another ice age.
Here are some facts:
1) Album purchases are down.
2) Single songs sales are up.
3) Downloading exists.
4) Some people who download buy. Some who download don't.
5) Bands always want to blame a lack of sales on something other than the lack of quality of their music.
6) DVD sales are up
7) DVDs can be easily downloaded/copied at high quality
8) People buy books.
9) People could just rent books.
10) People can just download books for free
11) People pay for pornography
12) There are a billion pornographic images on the Internet for free.
13) There is not enough time, this year, to listen to all the new albums released this year.
14) People are tired of buying music and finding out it sucks
15) People download music, like it, and don't buy it because they realize they still have to feed themselves.
16) People download music, like it, and don't buy it because they don't want to spend money on it since they already have it for free.
17) People have been able to easily/economically copy music since the debut of the cassette.
Here are some facts:
1) Album purchases are down.
2) Single songs sales are up.
3) Downloading exists.
4) Some people who download buy. Some who download don't.
5) Bands always want to blame a lack of sales on something other than the lack of quality of their music.
6) DVD sales are up
7) DVDs can be easily downloaded/copied at high quality
8) People buy books.
9) People could just rent books.
10) People can just download books for free
11) People pay for pornography
12) There are a billion pornographic images on the Internet for free.
13) There is not enough time, this year, to listen to all the new albums released this year.
14) People are tired of buying music and finding out it sucks
15) People download music, like it, and don't buy it because they realize they still have to feed themselves.
16) People download music, like it, and don't buy it because they don't want to spend money on it since they already have it for free.
17) People have been able to easily/economically copy music since the debut of the cassette.
...AndTimeBegan
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I seriously think that you have some kind of fetish. It's really scary that you're fishing for excuses for why the business is "failing" even though there's no real evidence that it is to begin with. It makes me laugh that when I ask you to provide evidence you simply respond with "I don't have any, I just KNOW". That won't get you anywhere bro.
...AndTimeBegan
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Well, i think i have been partially misunderstood. I never said that for every download we sell one less album. Actually i said that "some downloaders have honest intentions - and some don't". What i was saying is, that 1 less album sold *that would otherwise have been bought was it not for free downloads* = less money for the band/label. And that is the essence of it. I guess nobody can argue with that...!?
I was simply trying to explain things from a bands point of view, as the person in the thread above me asked for. But come on, how would you explain that a band that usually sells 100.000 copies per album suddenly sells only 30.000 copies - but their fan base is still expanding...?? And I'm not talking about Pyramaze, but just throwing around some statistics for you to think about. These statistics are made by the labels, and the only explanation for the decreasing sales is pirate downloading.
As someone also stated, this is not all black and white, but the essence of the problem remains the same.
And thanks for BUYING our albums
If ALL bands saw a decrease in sales I would be right there with you guys protesting downloading but as I said before, watch; I bet your next album will outsell your previous two and then this will prove that there's no direct correlation between downloading and CD sales decreases.
...AndTimeBegan
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- Nov 6, 2007
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Obviously not. You stick to your opinion and I'll stick with mine. I so much would love to give you proof but, for several serious reasons I can't and because of that I may look silly. I just thought music lovers in this forum knew more from a band and independent labels point of view....well, obviously you know more than me how it "works". It is indeed not just black and white but, just like the Pyramaze guitarist said "the problem remains the same".
End of dicussion from my part...no reason to continue partly because of your opnion and partly because me not being able to give you the proof you want to see.
By the way, I don't have any fetish
End of dicussion from my part...no reason to continue partly because of your opnion and partly because me not being able to give you the proof you want to see.
By the way, I don't have any fetish
dcowboys311
Member
I've never seen this explained by those who claim how much downloading is hurting:
"The 2004 US Consumer Expenditure Survey found households without a computer, and therefore unlikely to engage in file sharing, said that they had reduced their spending on CDs by 43 per cent since 1999."
"The 2004 US Consumer Expenditure Survey found households without a computer, and therefore unlikely to engage in file sharing, said that they had reduced their spending on CDs by 43 per cent since 1999."
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