several point here----1) how are they in arena's??? blame the promoters!!! they book the shows 2) how on earth can you say they aren't metal??? 3) i' 33 and a big mudfan when am i gonna "grow up???" 4) noone knows about nevermore becuz of horrible promoting by alot of people and the fact that nevermore hardly tour ( 2 tours in 2 1/2 yrs..) while bands like slipknot are on their 5th tour in 3 years and mudvayne have played wisc 5 times in 1 1/2 yrs nevermore 2x's in 4 1/2 yrs... 5) sounds like you seriously have deep problems with your band mates and need to move on....i've been to 4 mudvayne shows and 2 slipknot while i've been to 2 nevermore shows.....the mudvayne/slipknot shows were exciting and fun the nevermore shows were o.k. but hella alot less exciting!!!!! 6) the 80's stuff sucked 10x's worse cuz they had talent and chose to worry about image over substance!!! sorry this got so long....