getting a bright mix but not harsh

[aviel]

Can anyone throw a bone on this topic? when i try to make bright mixes they usually end really harsh and ear hurting.. when i try an eq to remove some of the 2 5 k area they get really weird... the problem grow even bigger when putting a limiter. i think i miss the air part of the mix and get fizz instead.. any suggestions?

 

[Clark Kent]

Can anyone throw a bone on this topic? when i try to make bright mixes they usually end really harsh and ear hurting.. when i try an eq to remove some of the 2 5 k area they get really weird... the problem grow even bigger when putting a limiter. i think i miss the air part of the mix and get fizz instead.. any suggestions?

The key is to EQ every instrument individually. Adding drastic EQ to master chain will make it sound harsh for sure. I suggest some high end EQs. Probably the best linear phase EQ plugin out there is Fabfilter Pro-Q. It's high quality and you have a spectrum analyzer in it etc.

"Vintage" high end EQ plugins: Puig-tec plugins rock! Both Pultec models!

Also it's good to have a vintage style compressor too smooth out a drastic EQ if it's necessary.

Ofcourse the best solution would be to record things right...

 

[RiF]

First, you can use any EQ plugin you have. I'd start with the stock ones that come with your DAW software.
Then...

• If you think an individual track sounds too muddy or not bright enough, first CUT AWAY in the mids and low-mids before adding highs.
• Make sure you CUT AWAY the lows in every track that does not need it. To find out, set a High-Pass-Filter ("HPF") to 40 Hz on every track and move the frequency up, until you hear it working. Then stop.
• If you still feel the need to boost highs, first find some spiky frequencies in the highs by taking one EQ band, make the Q very sharp, boost it by 10 dB and sweep through the upper frequencies (from 1K up to 20K) and find very resonant or spikey frequencies. If you found one, turn leave the Q sharp and turn it down like 5 dB. After that you'll find that you can boost highs better, because you're not boosting that frequency so much as well.
• To get a sweeter high-end boost, set the high band of your EQ from a shelf-type to a shallow bell type (Q around 0.3).
• Like Clark Kent said, stay away from master bus EQing, but EQ the individual tracks.
• Do not EQ the tracks in SOLO mode. Always EQ with all track running.

 

[aviel]

first of all thanks a lot for your kind help!, i did try everything you suggested, came with a bit better resaults

The key is to EQ every instrument individually. Adding drastic EQ to master chain will make it sound harsh for sure. I suggest some high end EQs. Probably the best linear phase EQ plugin out there is Fabfilter Pro-Q. It's high quality and you have a spectrum analyzer in it etc.

My first goal was to put eq on master chain because i felt like the maximizer bring harsh with it, later on i realized it was alredy there and it made it more obvious. basiclly i am kind of lost with the frequencies so i throwed a fab pro-q to try and understand what the mix lacks/has too much.. will vintage EQ sound good on such new metal productuions?

•If you think an individual track sounds too muddy or not bright enough, first CUT AWAY in the mids and low-mids before adding highs.
•Make sure you CUT AWAY the lows in every track that does not need it. To find out, set a High-Pass-Filter ("HPF") to 40 Hz on every track and move the frequency up, until you hear it working. Then stop.
•If you still feel the need to boost highs, first find some spiky frequencies in the highs by taking one EQ band, make the Q very sharp, boost it by 10 dB and sweep through the upper frequencies (from 1K up to 20K) and find very resonant or spikey frequencies. If you found one, turn leave the Q sharp and turn it down like 5 dB. After that you'll find that you can boost highs better, because you're not boosting that frequency so much as well.
•To get a sweeter high-end boost, set the high band of your EQ from a shelf-type to a shallow bell type (Q around 0.3).
•Like Clark Kent said, stay away from master bus EQing, but EQ the individual tracks.
•Do not EQ the tracks in SOLO mode. Always EQ with all track running.

After doing it i got to a situation where my mix got really dark, though it got me thinking that i might have a problem in the low mids that makes the mud. comparing to commercial cds i feel they have MUCH more mids and less treble which makes them more pleasent, but i can't seem to find out what frequecies to boost..

here is a quick shootout.

my mix:



and for reference:

 

[Nebulous]

Without sounding harsh myself, I think the mis itself there needs more work. I'd recommend having a good read of the sticky's here, especially the ones that Ermz has written, then going back to your mix.
Without getting too specific, both balance and depth is lacking there.

 

[aviel]

Eell i guess blaming bad sources of bass and guitar and bad composition is the easiedt way aint it? what do you find bad in balance? i tend to think the is not enough bass

 

[Clark Kent]

Yup, I don't mean to offend you in any way but I think you have bigger issues in that mix besides brightness.

 

[aviel]

Yup, I don't mean to offend you in any way but I think you have bigger issues in that mix besides brightness.

no offend my friend. i know this sucks, but i took it as an exercise. the song was my first attempt to get a live recording. everything was recorded live in the same time, in a studio with shity mics, and disgusting drums, the players had one reherseal together 1 day before the recording session, and without the singer. it was something i had to do for my sound studies, it ended horrible. we spent so much time trying to tune the drums (With no luck) that i just throwed a mic in front of the amp, which was really too bassy. and on top of all, playing was just not tight enough.

but i decided i take the song, trigger the drums and reprogram the overheads, and try to make a stunning mix out of it.. (at least try to). i said, i dont care if it sucks, it can still sucks but with good balance and not too bright way, no?

 

[Nebulous]

Yep, if one thing stands out it's that the source material was not the best you had to work with.
To get it to the point that you're referencing to, it will be a big ask and take very careful listening and balancing....and even then the source material will let you down.

You can only polish this so much. The best thing to learn and take away from it is to spend more time getting the raw tracks sounding better (where possible), and if something falls short, just learn to move on from it. Don't remix it 100 times.

 

[Ermz]

Music like this tends to need saturation.

Slate's VCC, Nebula's CLC - those things will get you where you're going much quicker. Instant mid-focus, while subduing the harsh, plastic highs that ITB is renowned for.

If you have any chance to boost high-end on your 'key' tracks using outboard EQs, that helps too. Many digital ones tend to just give you that present, plastic feeling - especially if they're not oversampled.

Obviously in this case the source material isn't 'there', but in the future the above will hold true. The futher away you get from sterile metal-esque genres, the more you grow a reliance on outboard gear in order to get you the smoothness and depth that you want for the music to glue right.

 

[aviel]

I find moving on very difficult to do.. its like giving up and admiting you st in the battle. but the fact is that i am sick of this song. its my girlfrienf singing and i am sick of hearing it lol..

about the saturation stuff.. how shall i apply it? on master? or maybe only on the kick and bass track? unfortunstely the only outboard i have is a compressor and bbe maximizet. also a simle console with eq

 

[RiF]

I find moving on very difficult to do.. its like giving up and admiting you st in the battle. but the fact is that i am sick of this song. its my girlfrienf singing and i am sick of hearing it lol..

I hear ya. Read PM.