Going to build a new 2x12, give me some suggestions.

[STINNETT]

Right now I've got a Marshall 2x12 that I like to record with, but I've started to feel that it just sounds too boxy and lacking in lowend. It's a little on the small side, and it's really shallow. Not real sturdy either.

I've decided that I should step up to a bigger and sturdier 2x12 cab for a couple of reasons. I've got just 2 British made Vintage 30's to use, and I want to keep a smaller and more manageable cab in my studio.
What I'm looking for is the best cab design to imitate with my build. Construction methods are no problem as I have the woodworking equipment and know-how, and I can overbuild the shit out of it if needed. I'm just trying to decide what sort of cab dimensions or internal volume will give the best results.

Is bigger better? Stiffer better? Yes, I'm still talking about guitar cabs.

Straight / slanted baffles? Extra depth versus extra width? Is there any advantage of one over the other?

Are there any unique features of some high quality cabs that you would emulate if you were doing the same thing?

Should I just copy the Bogner 2x12 design as close as possible?

 

[Katau]

Use some good ply such as 3/4" birch...not just laminated pine, but actual full birch (or other wood). You'll want to decide on front mount vs rear mount on the baffles. I make my baffle from the ply, but some others use MDF.

Copying from the Bogner may be a good idea...I copied the dimensions from the Mesa cab and it turned out great. Because my cab is also mainly used in the studio, some of the features on other cabs were eliminated...such as recessed handles and fancy grill fabric.
But I did wrap in fake snakeskin
http://home.comcast.net/~katauskas/cab4.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~katauskas/cab_11.jpg

 

[STINNETT]

Yeah, I was thinking that I would forget about recessed handles. I'm sure I'll use some corner protectors and put a decent covering and grille cloth on it. It has to look good enough to keep a good vibe, you know?

Why the extra space on the bottom of your cab?

 

[Metaltastic]

Front- or rear- mounting of speakers is only something I've recently become aware of; Diezel & VHT seem to think that front-mounting is better for metal, but everyone's two favorite 2x12 cabs around here (Bogner and Orange) are rear-mounted according to responses to emails I sent to each company, so there seems to be a difference of opinion in that regard. If Bogner's sales pitch is at all indicative, bigger is better, as there's greater internal volume for resonance, and a straight baffle would probably be better, cuz it'd be easier to align a mic in front of it (the slanted baffle is only for the sake of the player standing in front of it on stage). Not sure about stiffness or the ratio of the dimensions, though...

 

[ochants76]

Solid wood may be the best choice if you can get some at a decent price. Birch or Poplar. Glue isn't very musical. It is a small difference...but if I was building one I would go with solid wood.

 

[carvedones]

What is the slot for at the bottom?

Do you have the dimensions as i'd like to make one like that.

 

[Katau]

What is the slot for at the bottom?

Do you have the dimensions as i'd like to make one like that.

I put that there for 2 reasons:
1) it brings the speakers further off the floor
2) I can put a cover over that to provide storage during any travel or optionally put vertical ports in the floor

30" wide
14" deep
21.5" tall with slot and 16.5" without slot

 

[carvedones]

Thanks Katau.

 

[STINNETT]

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[ElektricEyez]

The bigger the box, the deeper the sound. Seal it extra tight, I usually use liquid nails. You can tell if the box has been sealed correctly because you can push the speaker down, and it should come back up slowly. Since you will not be moving it much, I recommend sticking with 3/4 inch wood. MDF will be very stiff, and very heavy, but in a sense thats what you want because vibrating walls in the wood makes you prone ear fatigue much quicker and it just sounds better. Basically the more dense, the better. The baffle is where your tone is mostly going to resonate. I have read that Baltic Birch is good for the baffle and MDF for everything else, because it's the baffle that makes the biggest impact on the tone. Not sure how true that is, but I know that MDF is great for subwoofers because it moves the least. If you can find specks for the speaker that tells you how large to build the internal enclosure, go with those parameters, otherwise you'll be at the mercy of the Theil and small parameters and finding a decent box building program on the web. The cabinet and the speakers go hand in hand, one cannot sound good without the other. You should let us know how this turns out!

 

[STINNETT]

Thanks.
I've been looking around for some sort of specs for the speakers and I haven't come up with anything yet. If anybody has ever seen em anywhere, please hook me up!
I don't see em on the Celestion website.

 

[::XeS::]

BIGGER IS NOT BETTER! There is a thing called Volume and every good cab has a specific volume (theorically...Marshall for example built the first 4x12s with 4 pieces of wood, without any volume or size calculation )
The best thing to do if you are a noob is to hear some cab and choose the one you like more, find its dimensions and build a replica.

 

[STINNETT]

BIGGER IS NOT BETTER! There is a thing called Volume and every good cab has a specific volume (theorically...Marshall for example built the first 4x12s with 4 pieces of wood, without any volume or size calculation )
The best thing to do if you are a noob is to hear some cab and choose the one you like more, find its dimensions and build a replica.

Yes, I of course mean "bigger" within reason.
It seems to me that the oversized cabs seme to be favored. The popular Bogner 2x12 is definitely a large cab. I've seen much smaller 2x12's before.

I will probably copy the dimensions from the Bogner cab.

 

[::XeS::]

Bogner is very very big....I thought to copy it too but the Bog Oversize is a 4x12 with 2 speaker So I copy the size of Laboga 2x12 (pratically the same size of an Orange 2x12): it's a little oversized but I can put it in the car

 

[ElektricEyez]

Dude, I looked and could not find any specs myself. I would personally go to a music store and check out the cabinets that come equipped with the speakers you're going to put in there. Find the cabinet that sounds the best to your ears, jump online and find out the dimensions and wood that was used to build it, then replicate it. I actually plan on doing that in the future myself. I've got some really nice EV Force series drivers, big heavy magnets, which can handle the low end, and sound really nice, better than any other speaker to my ears, but in a crappy cabinet. I've put them into a better cab one time just to hear them, and whoah what a difference. can't wait to build the new cabinet, although its going to weigh 2 and a half tons.

 

[carvedones]

The bigger the box, the deeper the sound. Seal it extra tight, I usually use liquid nails. You can tell if the box has been sealed correctly because you can push the speaker down, and it should come back up slowly. Since you will not be moving it much, I recommend sticking with 3/4 inch wood. MDF will be very stiff, and very heavy, but in a sense thats what you want because vibrating walls in the wood makes you prone ear fatigue much quicker and it just sounds better. Basically the more dense, the better. The baffle is where your tone is mostly going to resonate. I have read that Baltic Birch is good for the baffle and MDF for everything else, because it's the baffle that makes the biggest impact on the tone. Not sure how true that is, but I know that MDF is great for subwoofers because it moves the least. If you can find specks for the speaker that tells you how large to build the internal enclosure, go with those parameters, otherwise you'll be at the mercy of the Theil and small parameters and finding a decent box building program on the web. The cabinet and the speakers go hand in hand, one cannot sound good without the other. You should let us know how this turns out!

Ok i have finally desided to make a 2x12. It will have v30's in it. But i dont know what to make it out of. I made some calls today and found out that its pretty hard to get brich ply around here. I know the baffle needs to be descent wood. But is it true that you can use mdf for everything else, or would you suggest something else.

 

[greyskull]

copy an orange.
best cabs there are

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Just poping in to say that i just bought a sheet of birch plywood for $49. Should be enough to make a 2X12.

 

[ElektricEyez]

Ok i have finally desided to make a 2x12. It will have v30's in it. But i dont know what to make it out of. I made some calls today and found out that its pretty hard to get brich ply around here. I know the baffle needs to be descent wood. But is it true that you can use mdf for everything else, or would you suggest something else.

Are you sure that the Birch Plywood your trying to get is not solid? Most "Birch Plywood" only has a thin sheet of birch on the top and on the bottom, and other types of wood is sandwiched in between, and I think it's usually maple. Most Lumber yards carry cabinet grade Birch plywood, and that really is going to be your best bet. I suppose you could also use maple, which is going to be brighter in the upper mids, and your lows won't resonate as well, plus it's heavier. MDF will not give you very much "wood tone" and it will be very heavy. I would personally recommend that you build the whole cabinet out of one type of wood, despite the fact that the baffle is going to have the most impact, but that's just my preference. I would suggest rear mounting the speakers. And cover it with grill cloth for the front.

Here is a great website on wood tone...
http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm

I am currently getting ready to build 2, cabinets that will house 4 12 inch speakers, and I just picked up some Birch Plywood for about 40 bucks at Lowes 4x8 sheet. I'll try to remember to let you know how it goes...


Oh BTW I just took apart an old Crate Cabinet, and the baffle is looks to be Plywood, I'm guessing Birch, and the rest is Wafer Board, while the rear is particle board. The cabinet sounds really good too!


Another good website is Part's express will give you some good prices and good material for all of the other things such as corners, handles etc.

 

[nwright]

^Here's another vote against MDF. Some manufacturers use it because of it's dead and stiff quality (Engl uses it on some cabs as does Basson for guitar/bass enclosures), but for me those are the reasons NOT to use it. A good quality, marine grade birch ply cab has always sounded the best to my ears. Resonates well and enhances the tone. It's also much lighter!

MDF is used for PA cabs and sub boxes because of the characteristic dead and stiff sound and lower resonant frequency (due to density), so they do not color what it coming from the speaker itself and let the full frequency spread comes across without too much cabinet coloration (and adding some low end resonance because of said density). That's a good idea and makes sense. Applying the same thought to a limited frequency instrument seems counter intuitive to me. Maybe it's just because I like cabs that sound good and enhance the amp itself. But, I've also never played an MDF cab I thought enhanced the tonal qualities of the amp being played through it. Personally, a thuddy boomy cabinet doesn't sound too appealing to me. I *feel* like that's what you'd get with an MDF cabinet with decent speakers.

MDF is cheaper, but it seems like it'd be a harder material to work with due to what it is and how it's made. Also, the possibility of moisture creeping and swelling it (should something like that happen) would worry me more so than a good quality ply.