Going to build a new 2x12, give me some suggestions.

[ElektricEyez]

^Here's another vote against MDF. Some manufacturers use it because of it's dead and stiff quality (Engl uses it on some cabs as does Basson for guitar/bass enclosures), but for me those are the reasons NOT to use it. A good quality, marine grade birch ply cab has always sounded the best to my ears. Resonates well and enhances the tone. It's also much lighter!

MDF is used for PA cabs and sub boxes because of the characteristic dead and stiff sound and lower resonant frequency (due to density), so they do not color what it coming from the speaker itself and let the full frequency spread comes across without too much cabinet coloration (and adding some low end resonance because of said density). That's a good idea and makes sense. Applying the same thought to a limited frequency instrument seems counter intuitive to me. Maybe it's just because I like cabs that sound good and enhance the amp itself. But, I've also never played an MDF cab I thought enhanced the tonal qualities of the amp being played through it. Personally, a thuddy boomy cabinet doesn't sound too appealing to me. I *feel* like that's what you'd get with an MDF cabinet with decent speakers.

MDF is cheaper, but it seems like it'd be a harder material to work with due to what it is and how it's made. Also, the possibility of moisture creeping and swelling it (should something like that happen) would worry me more so than a good quality ply.

I don't think that with an MDF cabinet you would get Thuddy Low end speakers, I think what you would get is just the speaker voicing themselves, the thickness and density of the MDF means that it would vibrate less than any other type of woods, meaning less "cabinet coloration" and it's all speaker. In short, what the speaker says is what it will do. Birch is prefered because it sings with your speakers, and MDF lets your speakers sing solo but you already knew that.

I agree however, whatever you do, don't put MDF on the baffle, I would stay away from it all together, even more so keep it away from the baffle. even if it means driving to another city to buy some decent wood, trust me, you won't regret it!

 

[nwright]

^But the dude said something about building it oversized, thus the reason I said "thuddy, boomy" in context of the MDF cab. Of course I guess it could happen with a nice play cab as well...

 

[Notuern]

Everybody is talking about what materials are best, but thats the least problem.
The biggest problem is to get the Q value of the box right, you can match the Q value of the box to a certain tuning, so it will sound better with lowtuned guitars, or hightuned guitars, or if you want certain chords to kinda "chugga" abit more then others.

This site has alot about it: http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/speaker_cab.html

Building a speakercab is ALOT more then just slamming some pieces of wood together and putting speakers in there, the Q and FS values of the speaker needs to be matched with the size of the box, and what the match is depends on what kind of tone you are after, so there is quite a big amount of math involved in this kind of a build.
And to all of you who says the speakerbox needs to be completely sealed: You are VERY wrong.

If you seal the box completely you will get a higher pressure inside of the box, and thus creating a tighter feel to the sound, but the deal is that all clean tones will probably sound like shit.
Most speakerbuilders seal the entire box, except where they put the handles, that makes it possible for the air to exit the box easier, but not to easy, and thus it creates a much more vibrant tone, and you can get those "sparkly" highs in your clean sounds.
An other thing to think about is to build the cab so it either can stand on tiny rubber feets, or on wheels(i mean that both should be possible.), that way the box can be used in multipurposes, as having a box on wheels in studio will kill some of the tone, but having a box on feet live can be a pain in the youknowwhat.

 

[Katau]

^ ...it seems realistic that a cab shouldn't be 'completely' sealed. Otherwise, barometric pressures will change the baseline of your speaker when it is at rest...and during play. I'm fairly certain that is not healthy for a speaker.

 

[RyanUsesThis]

This forum is unbelievable... just when I start thinking about doing something.. a thread pops up on that subject..

I wanted to make 3, or 4 1x12 boxes and put a different speaker in each.. so I can choose which speaker tone I want.

this is all good info.

 

[ElektricEyez]

Everybody is talking about what materials are best, but thats the least problem.
The biggest problem is to get the Q value of the box right, you can match the Q value of the box to a certain tuning, so it will sound better with lowtuned guitars, or hightuned guitars, or if you want certain chords to kinda "chugga" abit more then others.

This site has alot about it: http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/speaker_cab.html

Building a speakercab is ALOT more then just slamming some pieces of wood together and putting speakers in there, the Q and FS values of the speaker needs to be matched with the size of the box, and what the match is depends on what kind of tone you are after, so there is quite a big amount of math involved in this kind of a build.
And to all of you who says the speakerbox needs to be completely sealed: You are VERY wrong.

If you seal the box completely you will get a higher pressure inside of the box, and thus creating a tighter feel to the sound, but the deal is that all clean tones will probably sound like shit.
Most speakerbuilders seal the entire box, except where they put the handles, that makes it possible for the air to exit the box easier, but not to easy, and thus it creates a much more vibrant tone, and you can get those "sparkly" highs in your clean sounds.
An other thing to think about is to build the cab so it either can stand on tiny rubber feets, or on wheels(i mean that both should be possible.), that way the box can be used in multipurposes, as having a box on wheels in studio will kill some of the tone, but having a box on feet live can be a pain in the youknowwhat.

I agree with you in the fact that you have to make the box work with the speaker's Theil and Small Parameters, but most guitar speakers are going to be in the same range, so for a 2 12 cabinet, just look and see what is out there and make the box about the same Cubic FT inside as what is out there. Basic rule of thumb is that the bigger the box, then the more bass you're tone will have, the smaller the box the tighter it will be. But it still has to be in concordance with the speakers, too big one way or the other will give you some massive problems. There are speaker box building programs available, but most guitar speakers aren't kind enough to share all of their specs, and your lucky if you can find sealed box enclosure and ported boxes recommendations. I would personally look at other cabinets and make a good judgment on that, just to make your life easier. I think brands like Mesa, Marshall and Fender, build their cabinets to the speakers specs. And since most guitar speaker companies such as Eminence, Celestion, etc have a tendency to want to sell you replacement speakers, they, for the most part, make their speakers work well in the cabinets that are available on the market, w/o going too far one way or the other. But if want to get really Anal about it, then yeah get the speakers specs and get a box building program and make your box accordingly.

I have to disagree with you about not making a sealed box "a sealed box". If your going to port, then port, which IMO sucks for guitars because all your doing with the port is boosting the frequencies of that port. I've never seen a sealed cabinet where the manufacture intentionally puts hidden holes of any purpose. I've built quit a few speaker cabinets and anytime I've had a hole in a sealed box, it always sounded like crap. Unless it was a port, and it was meant to be there.

Rubber feet vs wheels, I've never heard a difference in the tone of the box, but it makes sense that the rubber feet would absorb the vibration better than wheels, but I suppose it could make a difference. Better yet for recording, put the box on a floating floor, stuffed with Rockwool, to really absorb the low end noises.

 

[Notuern]

I agree with you in the fact that you have to make the box work with the speaker's Theil and Small Parameters, but most guitar speakers are going to be in the same range, so for a 2 12 cabinet, just look and see what is out there and make the box about the same Cubic FT inside as what is out there. Basic rule of thumb is that the bigger the box, then the more bass you're tone will have, the smaller the box the tighter it will be. But it still has to be in concordance with the speakers, too big one way or the other will give you some massive problems. There are speaker box building programs available, but most guitar speakers aren't kind enough to share all of their specs, and your lucky if you can find sealed box enclosure and ported boxes recommendations. I would personally look at other cabinets and make a good judgment on that, just to make your life easier. I think brands like Mesa, Marshall and Fender, build their cabinets to the speakers specs. And since most guitar speaker companies such as Eminence, Celestion, etc have a tendency to want to sell you replacement speakers, they, for the most part, make their speakers work well in the cabinets that are available on the market, w/o going too far one way or the other. But if want to get really Anal about it, then yeah get the speakers specs and get a box building program and make your box accordingly.

Well, the bigger the box, the more bass might be true, but you get different kinds of bass depending on if you are making it deeper or wider and higher.
Deeper usualy gives a smoother bass, while wider and higher might give an anoying gap between the bass and the treble(meaning that the treble will just cut through the sound ugly).
And actually, it is quite important to check the values of the speakers before you build the box, or else you cant really do the math of the boxes Q value.
Sure, you can copy speakers that are out there, but then you could just buy a cheap speakerbox without the speakers in it for about a 100$.

I have to disagree with you about not making a sealed box "a sealed box". If your going to port, then port, which IMO sucks for guitars because all your doing with the port is boosting the frequencies of that port. I've never seen a sealed cabinet where the manufacture intentionally puts hidden holes of any purpose. I've built quit a few speaker cabinets and anytime I've had a hole in a sealed box, it always sounded like crap. Unless it was a port, and it was meant to be there.

Well, one of the problems with a completely sealed box is that the pressure that builds up in the box will kick back to the speakers, giving the box a rumblier sound, kinda like tracking guitars in a garage.
Companies does not drill holes, they usualy just dont airseal the handles, but ofcourse there is some speakers out there on the market that are completely sealed, but if you let just a tiny amount of air out of those speakers, you will get a much more clear and fuller tone.

Rubber feet vs wheels, I've never heard a difference in the tone of the box, but it makes sense that the rubber feet would absorb the vibration better than wheels, but I suppose it could make a difference. Better yet for recording, put the box on a floating floor, stuffed with Rockwool, to really absorb the low end noises.

Well, this is not something you can really hear unless you mic the amp, sure its possible to notice it, but its not enough to care.
Yeah, i heard of somepeople making a wooden frame on the floor, about 10 to 15 inches high, filling it up abit more then halfway with foamrubber and putting the cab in there(The problem with this construction is that the whole cab will be moving slightly, causing phasingissiues.).

Another thing to think about is to not tighten the screws that hold the speaker in place harder then what your fingers alone can pull, otherwise the speakers vibrations will go into the wood, and it will cause noises.

 

[ElektricEyez]

Well, the bigger the box, the more bass might be true, but you get different kinds of bass depending on if you are making it deeper or wider and higher.
Deeper usualy gives a smoother bass, while wider and higher might give an anoying gap between the bass and the treble(meaning that the treble will just cut through the sound ugly).
And actually, it is quite important to check the values of the speakers before you build the box, or else you cant really do the math of the boxes Q value.
Sure, you can copy speakers that are out there, but then you could just buy a cheap speakerbox without the speakers in it for about a 100$.

Well, one of the problems with a completely sealed box is that the pressure that builds up in the box will kick back to the speakers, giving the box a rumblier sound, kinda like tracking guitars in a garage.
Companies does not drill holes, they usualy just dont airseal the handles, but ofcourse there is some speakers out there on the market that are completely sealed, but if you let just a tiny amount of air out of those speakers, you will get a much more clear and fuller tone.

Another thing to think about is to not tighten the screws that hold the speaker in place harder then what your fingers alone can pull, otherwise the speakers vibrations will go into the wood, and it will cause noises.

I don't mean to sound like I am arguing with everything you say, but the purpose of a sealed box is to act like an "air spring". It creates back pressure, for the speaker, which is why a bigger box gives you more bass. When the box is tighter, the speaker has to work harder to push the air inside, giving you a tighter sound, with less bass because the speaker has to have more watts and power to push against all of that compressed air. When you have a bigger speaker, the reverse is true, the speaker has less air pressure inside the box, so it moves around more easily. If you don't have a completely sealed box, and it has air gaps, then what you have is pressure leak, which sounds like crap and completely changes the dynamics of your speaker and box combo.

In this case, because a sealed box's main purpose is to create back pressure, then the internal shape doesn't matter, because the basic principal is that it's all air pressure anyway. Sound waves are not going to care what shape the internal box is, because the only part of the box that should have any give at all is the speaker acting against internal air pressure. The rarefaction occurring inside the box is happening so quickly, that shape doesn't matter, only size. In other words it's the rarefaction that is what concerns the Thielle and Small Parameters, working with the internal Cubic Ft of a sealed box. Q being just one of those parameters you keep referring too, does play a part in the big picture but there are other parts of the parameters as well. But the Q factor is sort of like the spring tension of the speaker, working against the internal air pressure.

As far as only hand tightening the screws against the baffle board, anyone who does that is going to be pretty pissed off if they do this, because all your going to hear is rattling and buzzing. The whole point of the baffle board having the most impact on a speaker's tone, is because the natural characteristics of the wood tend to vibrate along with the speakers, giving the box a voice of it's own.

Trust me, seal your cabinet, and tighten your speakers against the baffle board. Your speakers vibrate WAAAAY too much and would eventually fall off if you only finger tightened them. And if you have any holes at all, then your going to have a crappy sound because you're changing the characteristics of the rarefaction because the internal air pressure changes and you have no control over that, or even knowing how much a small hole will affect it. You wouldn't drive a hot rod with an exhaust leak would you?

 

[Notuern]

I don't mean to sound like I am arguing with everything you say, but the purpose of a sealed box is to act like an "air spring". It creates back pressure, for the speaker, which is why a bigger box gives you more bass. When the box is tighter, the speaker has to work harder to push the air inside, giving you a tighter sound, with less bass because the speaker has to have more watts and power to push against all of that compressed air. When you have a bigger speaker, the reverse is true, the speaker has less air pressure inside the box, so it moves around more easily. If you don't have a completely sealed box, and it has air gaps, then what you have is pressure leak, which sounds like crap and completely changes the dynamics of your speaker and box combo.

In this case, because a sealed box's main purpose is to create back pressure, then the internal shape doesn't matter, because the basic principal is that it's all air pressure anyway. Sound waves are not going to care what shape the internal box is, because the only part of the box that should have any give at all is the speaker acting against internal air pressure. The rarefaction occurring inside the box is happening so quickly, that shape doesn't matter, only size. In other words it's the rarefaction that is what concerns the Thielle and Small Parameters, working with the internal Cubic Ft of a sealed box. Q being just one of those parameters you keep referring too, does play a part in the big picture but there are other parts of the parameters as well. But the Q factor is sort of like the spring tension of the speaker, working against the internal air pressure.

As far as only hand tightening the screws against the baffle board, anyone who does that is going to be pretty pissed off if they do this, because all your going to hear is rattling and buzzing. The whole point of the baffle board having the most impact on a speaker's tone, is because the natural characteristics of the wood tend to vibrate along with the speakers, giving the box a voice of it's own.

Trust me, seal your cabinet, and tighten your speakers against the baffle board. Your speakers vibrate WAAAAY too much and would eventually fall off if you only finger tightened them. And if you have any holes at all, then your going to have a crappy sound because you're changing the characteristics of the rarefaction because the internal air pressure changes and you have no control over that, or even knowing how much a small hole will affect it. You wouldn't drive a hot rod with an exhaust leak would you?

I dont take it that way either.
And yes, completely sealed boxes gives that pressure, but the deal is that you should let a little bit of air out, but not enough to loose the pressure inside of the box, sure, the math might not be exact when you are done with it, but you will get better harmonics out of the box.

And that thing about handtightening, well, i guess it depends on how strong you are in your hands, so i might be wrong in a sence there, but you shouldnt tighten the screws really hard anyways.
And if you tighten the speaker really hard, the wood is going to rumble and give really annoying noises.
Ofcourse this is somewhat an effect you want, but when you tighten the speaker to hard, this effect will just make the box rumbly and uncontrolled in the sound.

What i meant by not sealing it completely is not to drill a open hole, that way you will have an airleak, instead of just letting some air out of the box when the pressure reaches a certain level, and this is achieved by not airsealing the handels with silicone or something else to not let air out of the cross section between the handle and the box(But you should tighten the screws really hard.).