Guitar Cab Recording

[Son of Caladan]

Every time I record distorted guitars at home, I always end up with a boomy, fizzy sound. I can get a thicker, less fizzy sound by cranking the amp past 8, but then I also end up with something that sounds a bit muffled and muddy. When I try to remedy this via post-EQ, I find that in order to reduce the fizz, I have to set the LPF as low as 2300Hz, and in order to get a tighter bottom end, I have to set the HPF as high as 240Hz. And even then, the results are lackluster.

Is it possible that these issues are the result of tracking at home, in an untreated room? Has anyone ever had a chance to compare a home recording to a studio recording using the same gear and settings? If yes, what differences did you observe?

In one of the pinned threads with Colin Richardson, Colin talks about tracks that have been recorded cleanly. What does he mean by cleanly, and is it possible to get clean tracks from a home recording in an untreated room?

And lastly, if we take the guitar tracks in "Mr. Crowley" for example, Max Norman recorded those tracks with 4 SM57's kitty-cornered on a full-stack, a U87 further back in the room, and a U87 just outside the room. The bottom end on Randy's tracks is the textbook example of what I consider tight. How big do you think is the difference between what the setup sounded like in the room, and what ended on the final product? How extensive might the post-tracking processing have been in order to get a result like that?

Attached is a short sample recording to give you an idea of what I am grappling with.

 

[Machinated]

its ALL about the source. your clip isn't actually too bad, and I hate to say this (I hope it comes across purely as constructive to help you get what you're after), but the main issue with your guitar tone comes from the level of performance. There's a million variables that all contribute to what makes a good tone, and they're all worth considering and taking care of, but if the playing is weak, the tone won't be good.

Its really just about adjusting whatever you can until you've captured what you're after - it could be changing the strings/pick/guitar/playing technique/pedals/amp/cab/speakers/mic/EQ or anything else. Just be as hard and critical on yourself as you can and push to get as close as you can to what you want the guitars to sound like. More often than not guitar chains are pretty straightforward.

 

[Son of Caladan]

its ALL about the source. your clip isn't actually too bad, and I hate to say this (I hope it comes across purely as constructive to help you get what you're after), but the main issue with your guitar tone comes from the level of performance. There's a million variables that all contribute to what makes a good tone, and they're all worth considering and taking care of, but if the playing is weak, the tone won't be good.

Its really just about adjusting whatever you can until you've captured what you're after - it could be changing the strings/pick/guitar/playing technique/pedals/amp/cab/speakers/mic/EQ or anything else. Just be as hard and critical on yourself as you can and push to get as close as you can to what you want the guitars to sound like. More often than not guitar chains are pretty straightforward.

I am usually at a loss when people say that "tone is in the hands." I mean, how many different ways are there to hit an E power chord to make it sound different. I am not sure what I could change drastically about my technique or level of performance that would make the recorded sample I provided not sound like a kazoo. If someone could explain this to me in practical, actionable terms, I am all ear, but I am not sure what more I could bring to the table performance-wise to make my guitar sound better. I have four years of formal music education, have played electric guitar for more than 25+ years, and am a proficient player who is familiar with all the standard techniques of my style, which is classic heavy metal. Heck, even Maiden, for example, sound different from album to album, despite consisting of the same guitarists using similar gear and the same playing technique. On Live After Death, the guitars are a bit fizzy. On Piece of Mind, they are bright and midrangey. On The Final Frontier, they are a bit bassy and muddy.

As far as the rest of the chain, I think I am using pretty decent gear. In fact, I am using the Dave Murray Signature Strat, the same guitar he played on the Piece of Mind sessions. The amp is a Marshall, close to the JCM800 2203's that Maiden used, for example. Other than the guitar and the amp, there was not much else in their chain that is going to make a huge difference between what Maiden used and what I am using. I am aware that I am mainly using a 1x12" cab, which is supposed to have the "small cab sound." As long as it is a good "small cab sound," I will be more than happy with the result. Which leads me to believe that the only remaining factors that could explain my lackluster recordings are (1) recording technique or (2) mixing, or both. Since I have never successfully achieved the hoped-for results, I am not in the position to determine what it is that I am doing where here, and what I need to change that would take me successfully from A to B, somewhere in the ball park of a semi-professional sounding classic metal guitar tone.

Figuring out how to get better results has, so far, seemed to be something akin to the quest for the Holy Grail. No kidding. I have spent more than three years working at this daily: playing, recording, researching, experimenting, and more. And I have made no significant progress than where I was about three years ago.

 

[Machinated]

Well I don’t really know what else to say - if you want to drastically improve your guitar tone, the only way is going to be through playing better. I’m not saying it to be offensive AT ALL, but the technique in the clip is never going to sound “pro” no matter what gear is used or how it’s mic’d. If you want it sounding like Randy Rhodes, or Iron Maiden or whoever then your technique needs to improve drastically.

If you say you’re completely at a loss as to how technique can vary the sound THAT much, then you really have much to learn..... you’d be surprised how different the same gear can sound in the hands of different players (and conversely, how similar gear can sound in the hands of the same player),

You’re more than welcome to completely disregard what I’m telling you, and assume it’s something else that’s unquantifiable or “magic” that’s eluding you. But I promise you, if you want to have great guitar tone then look into working on your technique.

 

[Son of Caladan]

Well I don’t really know what else to say - if you want to drastically improve your guitar tone, the only way is going to be through playing better. I’m not saying it to be offensive AT ALL, but the technique in the clip is never going to sound “pro” no matter what gear is used or how it’s mic’d. If you want it sounding like Randy Rhodes, or Iron Maiden or whoever then your technique needs to improve drastically.

If you say you’re completely at a loss as to how technique can vary the sound THAT much, then you really have much to learn..... you’d be surprised how different the same gear can sound in the hands of different players (and conversely, how similar gear can sound in the hands of the same player),

You’re more than welcome to completely disregard what I’m telling you, and assume it’s something else that’s unquantifiable or “magic” that’s eluding you. But I promise you, if you want to have great guitar tone then look into working on your technique.

I see what you are saying, but your antidote to fizzy, boomy tone is just more of the "unquantifiable" and "magic" that you seek to dispel, by claiming that if I did some magical modifications to my playing technique, the EQ of my tone would suddenly go from fizzy to midrangey. I agree that two different players with the same gear can sound different, but unless one player is playing lots of pinch harmonics and the other is not, for example, they should sound very similar if they are both playing the same power chord. Small stylistic differences, however, do not quality as tonal difference in my book. I firmly believe that the "tone is in the fingers" mantra is a myth.

Going back to my problem, I think I am making progress. After revisiting some literature on rhythm guitar EQ, I decided to record something at medium volume (Volume = 5) and see much I could manipulate the capture to get rid of the abrasive frequency content. I was able to locate the fizz in the 4700–5000Hz area, but even after notching it out with a deep and medium-Q cut, the tone as a whole was still too fizzy. The gain in brightness was not worth the fizz. I then went back to what I consider my best recording so far, recorded on Vol = 8, the point at which my amp's power section and speaker really kick in. That recording had the opposite problem of being too dark. I applied a small presence boost and a small routine fizz cut right before the boosted region. The result was really good, considering the recording was less than optimal, due to being recorded in a small apartment with no isolation.

So, in my experience, the improvement in tone came about by increasing the amp's volume and getting the power tubes and the speaker involved more. Most likely, the problematic fizz is the result of mechanical noise in the voice coil and the dust cap, noise that can be overcome by getting more speaker excursion through increased volume. I do not think that there was any amount of technique that could have given me such a drastic improvement.

 

[Machinated]

I see what you are saying, but your antidote to fizzy, boomy tone is just more of the "unquantifiable" and "magic" that you seek to dispel, by claiming that if I did some magical modifications to my playing technique, the EQ of my tone would suddenly go from fizzy to midrangey. I agree that two different players with the same gear can sound different, but unless one player is playing lots of pinch harmonics and the other is not, for example, they should sound very similar if they are both playing the same power chord. Small stylistic differences, however, do not quality as tonal difference in my book. I firmly believe that the "tone is in the fingers" mantra is a myth.

This is quite easy to disprove by having the same guitarist play the same rig as someone else. When recording guitarists I'll regularly spend a good amount of time showing them ways to adjust their technique to get more low end thump and less harsh fizz in their tone purely based on how they are playing. Where somebody rests their palm on the strings, how tight they hold the pick (and which pick they use), where they attack the strings, the angle, the force, how much of the pick passes through the strings, how hard they push down on the frets and so many other variables all contribute to the final tone. There's also tweaks such as raising or lowering the pickups, ensuring the screws on the back of the cab are tightened, raising the cabinet off the floor, testing all 4 speakers in a cab, using 4 or 16 Ohm taps on the amp (or even purposefully and safely mismatching impedances) etc that can pretty significantly alter the tone without spending a penny on new gear. Try downloading various different DI"s and run them through your same rig. If tone wasn't in the hands, micing up cabs would be way more easy and predictable.

Increasing the master volume is a good way of decreasing fizz somewhat - especially amps that rely heavily on negative feedback like Marshalls. More master volume=more midrange (can get bloated if you aren't careful), and the top gets softened. The sound gets more compressed as you go up. This is more evident in older Marshalls such as the 2203 but the theory applies to any amp with negative feedback really. If you're having issues with fizz, try micing away from the centre more (or even the glue blobs on the speaker). Micing slightly further from the cab can help reduce that "pinched" upper midrange area. Also lowering pickup height or changing the pick can help too (and even running some boosts than don't focus the upper mids/attack so much).

I'd still be addressing the technique ahead of all these things though, they're kind of redundant if the playing is under par.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I'll second machinated. Listening to the track, the tone isn't bad. The playing isn't bad either but I do recommend rerecording the tracks. Play the strings harder (beat the shit out of the strings, even if that means only recording a few seconds at a time). That will take out some of the dynamics and give your tone more aggression. It will sound like you turned the gain up and just make it more exciting in general. Track 2 guitars and make them sound as identical as possible.

I'll take Jeff loomis playing through the shittiest amp on the market over an average player with high end equipment any day.