Guitar Tone: pushing the envelope (clip inside)

Glenn Fricker

Glenn Fricker

Very Metal &Very Bad News
Mar 6, 2005
4,146
15
38
22 Acacia Avenue
Hey gang,

I've got a little demo I'd like you to check out & comment on.... specifically the guitar tone. This is based around the knowledge gained in the "Clayman" thread, as well as the "Heartwork" thread.

The base tone is a 5150, along with another amp for some added texture. I'll get into equipment specifics after a few comments... for now I'd like your ears to be the judge.

Here's the clip:
CLIP

Thanks,
-0z-
 
Damn. Went out to grab a can of Kodiak and my session expired and it lost what I typed! Errgh.

Guitars HP'd where?

The kick has a bit too much of typewriter syndrome to me, and I think if the low end (bass guitar) had more authority the guitars/this mix would be really nice. Overall, the lowend just seems lacking to me.

Going just on guitars though, which is what you want us to listen to, I think they sound really, really good.
 
The guitars really come to live around the 0:30 seconds mark.. they sound very very tight, one might say a bit boxy, but i like it a lot!
 
I am guessing there is no bass in this mix at all correct? I think if you find the proper bass to through into this it will sound great. I don't think you are looking for comments on the drums but I think the kick is a little weird. It sound like the drum skin was really loose. Instead of of CLICK I hear CLIAICCK. Ha, I don't know if that made sense.
 
Thanks for the commentary everybody.... the extra ears really help out. Listening again, yes, the guitars are a bit boxy... one minor EQ change cleared that up. I was going for something 'savage' and I might have went a little too far.
Drums: They're a quick & dirty DFHS sequencing job, as I can't play drums that fast & didn't have anyone around to lay 'em down for real. Kick was a home-rolled sample.... one of many.

Bass: There actually was a bass guitar on that mix, just down a little too far, I guess. The bottom end is always the biggest pain in the ass for me, usually with there being too much.

Tuning: Thanks for the observation, Nitro! I'm a total prick when it comes to tuning. So much so, one client's girlfriend nicknamed me "the tuning Nazi." No, I'm not making this up. Tuning was done with G-Tune 2.5 software. I also used it to intonate my guitar, as it's really precise. Peterson actually liscened the G-Tune technology for thier "Strobosoft" program, which, IMHO, is more expensive & inferior. It's a "drop C" tempered tuning (2 steps down & then "drop D" tuned). The open C string is tuned about 15 cents lower than a perfect C... I find this helps with chording from the 3rd to 7th fret on those low diads.

Thanks to your suggestions, I've remixed the clip. You can get it here:
CLIP
Kick drum has been changed, it sounds more like a drum now.... I've been experimenting with various kick samples to try to see how much definition I can keep at louder mastering levels.....
Bass guitar has been brought up (unfortunatley, it has dead strings) & the guitar EQ has been shifted slightly to take out some (not all) of the boxyness....

BTW, here's a pic of the second amp... it's sitting ON TOP of the Mesa.
GK.jpg
 
OzNimbus said:
Thanks for the commentary everybody.... the extra ears really help out. Listening again, yes, the guitars are a bit boxy... one minor EQ change cleared that up. I was going for something 'savage' and I might have went a little too far.
Drums: They're a quick & dirty DFHS sequencing job, as I can't play drums that fast & didn't have anyone around to lay 'em down for real. Kick was a home-rolled sample.... one of many.

Bass: There actually was a bass guitar on that mix, just down a little too far, I guess. The bottom end is always the biggest pain in the ass for me, usually with there being too much.

Tuning: Thanks for the observation, Nitro! I'm a total prick when it comes to tuning. So much so, one client's girlfriend nicknamed me "the tuning Nazi." No, I'm not making this up. Tuning was done with G-Tune 2.5 software. I also used it to intonate my guitar, as it's really precise. Peterson actually liscened the G-Tune technology for thier "Strobosoft" program, which, IMHO, is more expensive & inferior. It's a "drop C" tempered tuning (2 steps down & then "drop D" tuned). The open C string is tuned about 15 cents lower than a perfect C... I find this helps with chording from the 3rd to 7th fret on those low diads.

Thanks to your suggestions, I've remixed the clip. You can get it here:
CLIP
Kick drum has been changed, it sounds more like a drum now.... I've been experimenting with various kick samples to try to see how much definition I can keep at louder mastering levels.....
Bass guitar has been brought up (unfortunatley, it has dead strings) & the guitar EQ has been shifted slightly to take out some (not all) of the boxyness....

BTW, here's a pic of the second amp... it's sitting ON TOP of the Mesa.
GK.jpg
Click to expand...



Very smooth sound. Hahaha I would have never guessed the GK. Funny shit but it works. Serious it sound really good. Did you mention how many tracks this was. 2/4 ?. The drums are still not my thing though. Something about the snare makes it sound more like an effect then a snare. Good work.
 
3 guitar mics, quad tracked, for a total of 12 guitar tracks. It was a dual 57 on/off axis on the 5150 with v30s (see the Clayman thread) and then an i5 straight on the GK with celestion 75's. The GK is mixed VERY low, just to fill in the cracks a bit. It adds a nice texture, but it can get real ugly if mixed too high.

I got the idea from the Carcass thread, about them using a Marshall Micro stack or something mixed in real low... that got me thinking. I've got this old solid state amp lying around, why not give it a shot? I used the Radial X-AMP for splitting the signal.

As for the drums... again, it's just a quick & dirty DFHS mix, basically just there to keep the beat. The snare is a home rolled sample thrown on top of the DFH snare. I'm sure if I put some time in on it, I could really get it happening, but this was more about guitars this time around.
If I were to track this for real, it would most certainly be a live kit..... or I'd put some work in on DFH velocities.

Anyway, thanks again....
-0z-
 
It' not organic. I don't know who played it, but it seam that he's not hitting the string hard enough. I mean, 12 guitars!? To sound that precise with 12 guitars you can't play like you normaly would. Maybe I'm wrong about playing, but that's how it sound to me.
 
Atheist said:
It' not organic. I don't know who played it, but it seam that he's not hitting the string hard enough. I mean, 12 guitars!? To sound that precise with 12 guitars you can't play like you normaly would. Maybe I'm wrong about playing, but that's how it sound to me.
Click to expand...
I request a clip of you with 12 tracked guitars demonstrating how hard the strings should be hit. I would like to hear what 'organic' means.
 
OzNimbus said:
Tuning: Thanks for the observation, Nitro! I'm a total prick when it comes to tuning. So much so, one client's girlfriend nicknamed me "the tuning Nazi." No, I'm not making this up. Tuning was done with G-Tune 2.5 software. I also used it to intonate my guitar, as it's really precise. Peterson actually liscened the G-Tune technology for thier "Strobosoft" program, which, IMHO, is more expensive & inferior. It's a "drop C" tempered tuning (2 steps down & then "drop D" tuned). The open C string is tuned about 15 cents lower than a perfect C... I find this helps with chording from the 3rd to 7th fret on those low diads.
Click to expand...
A tuning Nazi is one of the bestest types of Nazis out there :rock:

Thank you for the information and the tuning tip :kickass:

The redone clip sounds even more awesomer.
 
Brett - K A L I S I A said:
No, he did not say 12 different guitars, he said 4 guitars with 3 microphones each (4x3=12 tracks) :)
Click to expand...

Oh, you are right. My mistake. :blush:

I would like to hear what 'organic' means.
Click to expand...

Organic, like... non flat with a sweet vibrato-like sound movement generated by the tubes in amp. :)

I request a clip of you with 12 tracked guitars demonstrating how hard the strings should be hit.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it well. I ment it sounds like the string were not hit hard enough. Maybe they are, but as with 'oragnic' it's just a descripiton of what I hear.

pivopije.gif
 
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