Hardest band to mix live?

[ahjteam]

I know some of you guys do some FOH-mixing live, so I would like to know what has been personally the hardest band to mix for you live... I would propably have to say Eilera, which is a French band I am having a short tour with right now... But I really have to say that I like the challenges and the music is good too Their livesetup is:

- 1 kick 2 snare 4 tom ~8ish cymbals -drumset
- 6+1 channels of backing tracks (loops, electronics, harmonic synths, strings, backing vocals etc and the click for the drummer)
- 5-string Bach bass-guitar with distortion pedals to Hartke (model???) head and VX-series 1x15 + 4x10 stack
- 7-string Ibanez guitar to Marshall JCM 2000 head and 1960 halfstack
- An elecric cello to Bass POD to DI-box
- An elecric violin to DI-box
- Lead female vocalist (we tried different mics, but we ended up using Beyerdynamic Opus 89 for her voice)
- TC D-two and M-one for the effects
- Two in-ears (wireless for the vocalist, wired for the drummer), two floorwedges for the string players

So that is about 20-22 tracks without even getting hifi with the mics, the bare minimum is 19 tracks, because the drummer wants his whole kit to his in-ear.

Q: Why would I think this as the most challenging?
A: Separation, balance and very dynamic vocals on a fvcking busy mix.

If you look at what goes to the subwoofers, there is the kick, the bass, the cello, the gated toms and the loop tracks... Don't even get me started about the mids and highs...

So you really can't get "the best full range sound" from all of the instruments, but I really had to make decisions how to get a good separation without feedback and without getting the levels too high. I ended up doing so that I cut everything below 80hz from the bass, toms and the loops and let the cello and kick go fully to the subs. The bass and toms did go to the subs, but not so loudly

Also we could've used like 6 monitorgroups, but it would've brought the stage level up a lot lot more and since the band could play easily with only the two floor monitors without a problem, so we decided to keep it as simple as possible because the stages they play arent that large either. Also if the celloplayer and the violinplayer would've used acoustic instruments, it would've been a lot harder to mix them because those mics are usually very sensitive.

But I really have to say that I maybe overdid "keeping the levels low" last gig, there was a sign that said "MAX 100dB", I thought that the mix sounded quite loud already and I checked with an SPL-meter and it was 81-82dB quite constantly... The RMS peaks were at 90dB on the whole set.

 

[HeadCrusher]

Great, I'd really appreciate if gigs around here peaked at 90... its more like 95-100 tho...

 

[Ermz]

The hardest for me was a simple extremely amateur rock gig at a local pub. When the musicians have no idea how to keep their instruments in tune, much less actually *play* a tune, then all the tracks and channels in the world aren't going to save you. The reason I gave up live sound was because I would frequently get the blame for bad musicians playing badly, and only very rarely would one get a 'planets align' gig where things go off without a hitch. I've stuck to doing studio projects full time since I just got fed up with the people.

 

[kaomao]

The hardest for me was a simple extremely amateur rock gig at a local pub. When the musicians have no idea how to keep their instruments in tune, much less actually *play* a tune, then all the tracks and channels in the world aren't going to save you. The reason I gave up live sound was because I would frequently get the blame for bad musicians playing badly, and only very rarely would one get a 'planets align' gig where things go off without a hitch. I've stuck to doing studio projects full time since I just got fed up with the people.

Actually with me is the opposite lol
I got dudes in the studio that can't play their songs and the fault is mine because they ain't got a tight sound lol ahhaa

 

[Nebulous]

The hardest for me was a simple extremely amateur rock gig at a local pub. When the musicians have no idea how to keep their instruments in tune, much less actually *play* a tune, then all the tracks and channels in the world aren't going to save you. The reason I gave up live sound was because I would frequently get the blame for bad musicians playing badly, and only very rarely would one get a 'planets align' gig where things go off without a hitch. I've stuck to doing studio projects full time since I just got fed up with the people.

What bothers me more than that is the shit gear you're supose to use with the said musicians, so it end up being a clipped, clustered shitpile of wrong notes.

 

[if6was9]

I've done a dew gigs as sound guy- they didn't sound great but the places i was doing it were tiny and i had to build the p.a out of whatever i could get together for the shows- . think i got them pretty clear but i'd loads of trouble with the kick sound- it was either heard and sounded crap or good sounding but impossible to hear, i didn't have the gear to have it any other way

 

[axeman720]

Toughest for me was sanctity. But thats just cuz zeffs guitar was WAYYY to loud. haha, i love em anyway though.

Easiest would have to be All that remains or Daath. Both has phenomenal drummers and great guitarists.

The beautiful thing about live sound is that your work only lasts for a night. With making records i have to live with my decisions forever. No remixing tomorrow night...

 

[ahjteam]

The beautiful thing about live sound is that your work only lasts for a night. With making records i have to live with my decisions forever. No remixing tomorrow night...

Thats why I love doing livesound more... And if you just do your job right but it still sounds like shit, you can always blame the band or the gear.

Great, I'd really appreciate if gigs around here peaked at 90... its more like 95-100 tho...

Same thing here, 95-105...

 

[LSD-Studio]

www.diefischerband.de

(check the media-section for live-videos)

 

[Sloan]

I recently watched this New York Dolls documentary that stated their average spl was 130db.

I did sound for this Dave Matthew's Tribute band (nooooo!) and it was interesting working with the violin and saxophones.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I would propably have to say Eilera, which is a French band I am having a short tour with right now...

Oh wow cool, Loïc (the guitar player) used to play in my band Kalisia, Aurelie and he are from my hometown Montpellier. Please say hello from Brett to them and tell me their reactions, would be funny to see their faces

And to answer your questions I'd say that any band that sucks at playing is very hard to mix live. I've done FOH for Cynic, and getting a great sound out of Sean Reinert (drums) or Chris Kringel (bass) was so easy... All in the players really... For the bass, we were using a DI and the channel Eq was flat and I didn't even compress, or very very little, since he had so much control of what he was playing...

Although Tom from To-Mera is a very good guitar player, but his guitar tone sucked a lot when I did sound for them on their Dream Theater opening, very hard to get anything decent out of it (ask elmuchoescadawg about his guitar tone, haha).

 

[Where She Wept]

Metal bands where i work. it's only a 13' square stage. And metal bands come in with their full stacks and play so loud everyone leaves, then they whine about the fact people left and blame the venue. Hell i'll never forget Orange Goblin, Thier guitartist whined all night about turning his marshall's master volume from 10 to 8 and i contemplated violence against their "sound guy" or as i like to call him "whiny bitch #2"

 

[ahjteam]

And metal bands come in with their full stacks and play so loud everyone leaves

That reminds me of the first band that I started to mix regularly few years ago (I was actually mixing their gig just a few hours ago, was one of the fastest soundcheck I've ever done... 12 minutes flat after the instruments were in place ), Major Label. I think for about the first two gigs when the guitarist touched the guitar played during the soundcheck, I stopped him after the first chord and said "mtfckr, turn it down", because the guitar alone was blasting over 110dB at 6 meters away from stage...

Eventually he had turned his amp from 8 to 3 or something as dramatic... Same thing was with the bass player. They both learned after 2-3 gigs that you really don't need to make your amps scream so that they can be audible and they actually heard everything more clearly. Thats why we have the mics

...and nowadays the vocalist-guitarist actually only wants the mic sound from the bass cab* to his monitor so he can keep the key more easily. Maybe just a little bit of the sampler, drums and guitar if the stage is big or outdoors, but otherwise nothing. He DOESN'T even want his own vocals to the monitor unless he asks it, he even made me write it to their tech rider. The reason was actually pretty simple: because after I made them turn down the stage volume really lot (I measured that the drop was almost 30 dB's, which is fucking much), he can actually hear what he is singing in his head, so unless the monitoring is really superb, it usually just distracted him and made him sing off key.

* = The reason for mic over line is because the bass player uses distorted sound, so the mic sounds more like second distorted guitar, when the the line sound taken before the distortion pedal is just unintelligible hummmmmmmmmmm~~~

 

[Ermz]

I think you're fortunate in the fact that you even get to do a soundcheck. About 70% of the time we don't get the chance down here, and even if we do it's usually a 1 minute or so run through a fraction of a song. Doing live sound definitely got me working *fast* but I think it also took a few years from my life.

 

[LSD-Studio]

I think you're fortunate in the fact that you even get to do a soundcheck. About 70% of the time we don't get the chance down here, and even if we do it's usually a 1 minute or so run through a fraction of a song. Doing live sound definitely got me working *fast* but I think it also took a few years from my life.

same here....on the Alestorm-tour the average time for soundcheck was something between 1 and 3 minutes.
so actually more a linecheck...but if you have only spare channels to use you don't really need much more

 

[ahjteam]

I think you're fortunate in the fact that you even get to do a soundcheck. About 70% of the time we don't get the chance down here, and even if we do it's usually a 1 minute or so run through a fraction of a song. Doing live sound definitely got me working *fast* but I think it also took a few years from my life.

Linecheck is not a soundcheck. But yeah, I've had my share of fast changes on Ääni&Vimma bandcompetition... 22 bands in one day, 10 minute sets, 5 minute switches, linechecks only for the keyboards(!).

You usually get to do the soundchecks here 90% of the times because they usually are pretty negotiable, and I usually do it for the clubs sake, because they can say during the soundcheck it its too loud, thats why I haven't actually done a single clubgig without a soundcheck for the past 4 years, unless there is four bands for the night... And you usually get them when you have a band on a record label and put the soundcheck as a requirement to your techrider (I usually put 30-90 minutes) the 12 minutes was so that it included the time to put the mics too, and the band played one song during the soundcheck.

Oh wow cool, Loïc (the guitar player) used to play in my band Kalisia, Aurelie and he are from my hometown Montpellier. Please say hello from Brett to them and tell me their reactions, would be funny to see their faces

I sent him an SMS at 3AM to Loïc "Brett from Kalisia asked to say hi ", the reply was: "What!!? You know Brett?!?"

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

Although Tom from To-Mera is a very good guitar player, but his guitar tone sucked a lot when I did sound for them on their Dream Theater opening, very hard to get anything decent out of it (ask elmuchoescadawg about his guitar tone, haha).

Ive had quite a bit of trouble with toms tone in the past just trying to make him cut through. To Mera are a difficult band to mix live mainly because there us so much going on and it all changes so drastically. From blast beat to jazz break down is quite a drastic re eqing of the whole band so its just a way of finding a way to change the sound quickly. Great live band though and at least they have a singer you can get some volume out of

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I sent him an SMS at 3AM to Loïc "Brett from Kalisia asked to say hi ", the reply was: "What!!? You know Brett?!?"

Hahaha, at 3 in morning, that's a bit harsh, lol

 

[Where She Wept]

I think you're fortunate in the fact that you even get to do a soundcheck. About 70% of the time we don't get the chance down here, and even if we do it's usually a 1 minute or so run through a fraction of a song. Doing live sound definitely got me working *fast* but I think it also took a few years from my life.

I just do line checks, unless it's a national, then i have to kiss their ass'

Ive had quite a bit of trouble with toms tone in the past just trying to make him cut through. To Mera are a difficult band to mix live mainly because there us so much going on and it all changes so drastically. From blast beat to jazz break down is quite a drastic re eqing of the whole band so its just a way of finding a way to change the sound quickly. Great live band though and at least they have a singer you can get some volume out of

Really? As long as a band has good sounds (IE:good guitar tone, decent drums tuned well, etc..) you shouldn't have to re-eq anything.

 

[TheDude]

I think that the hardest gigs I've made was back in 2000 when I did FOH, Monitor (when there was no monitor desk) AND lights for Meshuggah. I had the desks in an L shape and was a bit concentrated during the show.