Has the time come to expand Progpower to three days?

[SyXified]

So, I was thinking about this festival from a rather economical standpoint and I figured I would just throw this thought out there.

This year (and nothing against any of the bands, I'm talking purely monetarily and popularity-wise here) is definitly a bit lower on the spending/big draw end of things. Assuming this year sells out, I think you've got a pretty clear example of a situation where demand has exceeded supply. So, what do you do in this situation? You increase supply!

If tickets are $100, that means each 'day' is currently worth $50. Now, imagine if you added friday and made it a 3 day fest but instead of charging $150, because there is excess demand you charge $175. I don't know about the rest of you but I have a feeling pretty much everyone would be more than willing to shell out the extra money for an extra day of progpower, and considering how fast this fest always sells out, I would have to assume it would continue to sell out in this scenario - but now there are increased revenues. That means an opportunity to book even bigger bands and make the event even more of a an experience. Doing so would mean the following opportunities become available...

1. You could book 3 big headliners, or you could book 2 medium headliners and 1 HUGE headliner. For example Symphony X, Evergrey, and Angra would be an example of 3 big headliners. But you could also do Vanden Plas, Edguy, and Rhapsody <---(or insert your formerly unattainable band here). It's a nice flexibility that could provide variety year to year.

2. You have a better opportunity to please the two camps of those who want returning, familiar bands in the high slots, and those who want somthing brand new in the high slots. 6 big slots to play with yields a lot of flexibility to give us somthing old and somthing new.

3. You have a better opportunity to please the two camps of those who want prog and those who want power. 5 extra bands would lessen the current notion of a year being a 'prog' year or a 'power' year and provide the opportunity to create more of a balance for both parties.

4. A larger festival becomes a more appealing opportunity for larger bands to participate in, which means you probably end up having to pay each band less which means you can spend more to either increase the noteriety of the lower slot bands (like back at PPIII when Silent Force was 2nd on), or put it towards attaining a couple of huge headliners.

There are countless other advantages I can think of. Of course, it's Glen's show and he can do what he wants, but I would love to hear some feedback on the thought from the board!

 

[Creeps]

Thought it was already at 3 days if you count the pre party.

here's some thoughts;

1. But as you state increased revenues... also means increased cost to run the show, won't be free money for Glenn.

2. He pretty much does this now by limiting the frequency of the return bands and no one has really complained about seeing certain bands (Evergrey/Symphony X) so many times, so I don't think that's too much of an issue.

3. No matter if it's 1-7 days, he'll never be able to please everyone. If he ran the damn thing all week, I'd still go, but you'll still get people who aren't satisfied, no way around that.

4. The larger bands he may not want to play his festival as they tour regularly already. Out of everyone he's booked who remains larger? Helloween, Dream Theatre, Fates Warning, etc.. bands of that caliber that tour enough as it is (sans Helloween) and most people can drive down the street to see DT than fly around the world to see them.

I'm not being a nay-sayer, I'm all for more metal. But IMHO the pre-party makes a PP a 3 day event, no matter that Glenn doesn't book it. Those that choose not to show for the pre-party just miss out.

 

[BlindPanzer]

A lot of people have to work, and making it three days would mean that either it would start a day earlier (thus moving it to a wednesday preparty or getting rid of that altogether) or a day later (which means that it would be until sunday, a day which most people who are out of town go back home in order to be by Monday)

 

[booB]

Not to mention... not everyone goes to the pre-party. Lots of people just go to ProgPower... meaning, they don't take days off of work to make the event. Making it a three-day event would leave them with no choice but to do so.

 

[SyXified]

Thought it was already at 3 days if you count the pre party.

here's some thoughts;

1. But as you state increased revenues... also means increased cost to run the show, won't be free money for Glenn.

2. He pretty much does this now by limiting the frequency of the return bands and no one has really complained about seeing certain bands (Evergrey/Symphony X) so many times, so I don't think that's too much of an issue.

3. No matter if it's 1-7 days, he'll never be able to please everyone. If he ran the damn thing all week, I'd still go, but you'll still get people who aren't satisfied, no way around that.

4. The larger bands he may not want to play his festival as they tour regularly already. Out of everyone he's booked who remains larger? Helloween, Dream Theatre, Fates Warning, etc.. bands of that caliber that tour enough as it is (sans Helloween) and most people can drive down the street to see DT than fly around the world to see them.

I'm not being a nay-sayer, I'm all for more metal. But IMHO the pre-party makes a PP a 3 day event, no matter that Glenn doesn't book it. Those that choose not to show for the pre-party just miss out.

1. If each day is worth $50 per ticket now this is covering costs and you upped the price to $175 that means you have $58.00 a day revenue to cover the costs. Yes, of course costs would go up, but charging $150 for 3 days would be equal to $100 for 2 in terms of covering costs. This would increase revenues at a higher rate than would increase costs. Plus, variable costs would go up, but fixed costs would not so coupling in another day would be by definition an economically sound decision UNLESS fewer people bought tickets.

2. It's still more flexibility. Right now the headliners generally are 1 return and 1 new. That means if you hate one of them you are 50% not interested. Spacing it over 3 days gives you a better % chance to please more people. Think of it this way. Say you are going to add 5 more bands, drawing randomly from the pool of available prog/power bands. I'd say for everyone the chances of drawing one that you are psyched about is much greater than one that would actually DETER you from going. If you wind up apathetic about even the entire new days worth of bands, I still don't think that would deter people from going.

3. No, you can never please everyone, but more bands mean you please more people and you add to the utility of those who (as the majority of us represent) are pretty happy with whoever plays. Basic economic principal - more is better than less.

4. Not saying necessarily that you have to get a mamoth band. But, right now getting say Blind Guardian AND Stratovarius on the same show would be impossible. In this model, it would be far more likely to be a realistic occurance.

 

[SyXified]

A lot of people have to work, and making it three days would mean that either it would start a day earlier (thus moving it to a wednesday preparty or getting rid of that altogether) or a day later (which means that it would be until sunday, a day which most people who are out of town go back home in order to be by Monday)

But if people are willing to skip work for the pre-party now, it's only logical that as many if not more would be willing to skip work for an extra TRUE day of the fest. I would have to skip work too, but I would make sure to do it for this festival, given that this is really a once and year, and exclusive in style to this festival show. The drawing power is strong enough to overcome people having to get out of work.

 

[SyXified]

Not to mention... not everyone goes to the pre-party. Lots of people just go to ProgPower... meaning, they don't take days off of work to make the event. Making it a three-day event would leave them with no choice but to do so.

You could always make friday optional (sell 2 day ticket packages and 3 day ticket packages). It would still hold that a REAL extra day of the fest would be more appealing to the majority than the preparty. Lots of people work on the weekends too, at the very least Saturday, and I'm quite sure that these people have been completely willing to skip work to see the fest.

 

[J-Man]

I thought the festival was on Friday and Saturday, with Thursday as the pre-party, so i don't get it when you say add Friday as the extra day or optional day. Please explain.

Now, imagine if you added friday and made it a 3 day fest but instead of charging $150, because there is excess demand you charge $175.

You could always make friday optional (sell 2 day ticket packages and 3 day ticket packages).

 

[lady_space]

I believe Glenn has already addressed this on numerous occasions... but something else is that the crew guys would have an extra day of work, and I think they work hard enough as it is.

Personally, to me, it's already a 3-day festival and the bands *are* big. Any bigger, and it becomes a little redundant, since those guys are already touring.

Maybe you young'uns can handle three days of 8 hours worth of metal, but I have all the metal I can handle in one weekend.

 

[lady_space]

I'm quite sure that these people have been completely willing to skip work to see the fest.

Also, by the way, WILLING does not equal ABLE. Don't know about you guys, but I just switched to a company without the greatest leave policy in the world, so I have to mete out my vacation pretty carefully.

I think if you asked everyone at PP, you'd have far more Monday-Friday 9-5-type people than you would those who work weekends.

 

[Mosquito]

ahem...

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i agree with the majority. PP isn't the massive DT/Rhapsody etc show. It's a place to enjoy up and coming bands and maybe check out ones you haven't heard before, knowing that all of them kick ass. I would be bummed if Glenn added a day to book huge acts. If it were more little guys though, that would be indeed cool.

 

[MetalRose]

While your concept is right on the mark, there are a couple of things.

Glenn runs this for himself above anything else. He's not out to get popular. That's part of this fest is the exclusivity (spelling?). There are plenty of other fests on the circuit with more time, but less than stellar bands.

Besides with this "group of people" for the most part we all know everyone and know the "rules" of the fest. Even though it is a general public type event, it's a limited audience. I'm sure if the group gets to big, we're bound to have some jack hole fuck it up for the rest of us... and some are coming close.

As far as the ticket prices go. I think that $100- $130 per ticket is a fucking killer deal. I almost feel like I'm ripping Glenn off at these prices, but in the same vien, as a single mother I cannot justify spending $200 on a ticket, plus food, and hotel costs. It would make this fest impossible for me as well as a lot of others I'm assumming.

I'd like to think that that portion factors in to Glenns costs as well.

-Metal

 

[BABS]

You must realize the work it takes for Babs to prepare for PP. I start to bank up my sleep by going to bed early a week before, vitamin c and regular vitamins, round up people to take care of my cats & plants, have a safe place for my daughter to stay while I'm away, tell work "These are my last two personal time days for the year, so I must go or lose my time accruals - lol", get everything taken care of at work so I don't get harrassing phone calls from the boss on Friday morning during his business hours and my "just gone to bed 4 hours ago hours".

I go down a day early specifically for the pre-party. Only to be jealous and find out that there was a "pre pre-party" that everyone had fun at and feel sad I missed out on (giggle).

It's vicious (big laugh).

 

[TheWhisper]

Maybe you young'uns can handle three days of 8 hours worth of metal, but I have all the metal I can handle in one weekend.

Ok, grandma...

 

[Jurakan]

Most of the time, when you try to make something good even better, you actually screw it up.

And as pointed out, this year's pre-party is virtually an extra festival day.

 

[Wayniac]

Lady space hit it on the head. Thanks Shaye !

I LOVE this fest and the people that attend it - and will work it until I can no longer see, move or hear, or until Glenn stops doing it - whichever comes first. But I think 2 days is about all the crew can take. That includes the house people at Earthlink. 9am til 3 am 2 days in a row (actually later on Sun morning) is long enough for me. Even when teching with regular bands on the road - the crew gets to sleep in til noon or so - much like many of the PP attendees.
Not to mention 5 soundchecks and 5 sets each day!??! No thanks.. 2 days is enough for me

Plus - I like to use my vacation time away from work for stuff besides working another job! lol A third day would cut into my time, as i usually fly in on Wed anyway. I'm sure many other working stiff are in teh same boat

Syx... feel free to set up a fest if you aren't happy... best of luck

 

[AngraRULES]

Has the time come to expand Progpower to three days?

No, it hasn't.

 

[YtseJammer]

With the Pre-Party being as good as it has been the last two years, the festival already is three days long....

 

[SyXified]

Most of the time, when you try to make something good even better, you actually screw it up.

And as pointed out, this year's pre-party is virtually an extra festival day.

Would that imply that they should never have moved PP to Earthlink? Because personally I think that was a huge improvement.

I think you are right though, the pre-party IS more and more starting to resemble another festival day. Wouldn't one take that to simply imply the natural movement towards just making it a full pledged day? It's staring everyone right in the face.

My apologies, you would be adding Sunday to the event, not Friday. Even better.

Honestly, though, the only thing I have heard that sounds reasonable here is that Glenn runs the fest for himself and it would be strain on the crew. I can understand that much (though you can always hire more crew, I've already explained why it would work monetarily). People for some reason react so negativly to the idea of expansion, but be honest with yourself and how thrilled you would be if you copied and pasted one day from another fest onto the current one. You would flip out! Personally, I LOVE PP as it is, I think it is the best fest of its kind and a unique opportunity for US citizens especially. But, I think if this were a business, the coldly logical, rational move based on current trends decision would be to expand. And I think despite peoples tendency to object, 99% of you would be utterly thrilled if it happened.