Hawk June 70s classics: Scorpions - In Trance

[Hawk]

This is not directed at anyone in particular. Just my opinion as a woman.

What I find disturbing about the VK cover is the fact that the parents took it upon themselves to decide that their young daughter's nude body could be displayed for the world to view.

delize

I welcome any disscussion based on knowledge of what happend. Not on speculation like the above. I already wrote that both the girl and the parents agreed together. They talked about it and both parties agreed.
You may disagree with the desicion of both parties [that is, the girl and her parents] but don't pretend the girl was a passive factor in this. thats simply wrong and misguided.

What does "your opinion as a woman" mean? Do you think that *all* woman over the world will agree with you? Do you speak for all woman? do you think that All woman disagree about this subject while all man will agree? Thats funny because the decision was made by 2 females and one man.

I really don't understand you "opinion as a woman" remark.

Maybe different time and different morals, but it's not something I would choose for a daughter of mine; (if i had a daughter) then, now, nor in the future.

Than don't. I don't see however how this is relevant to the subject at hand. Your morals are not the subject here, but the morals and way of thinking and the girl and her parents. If you want to judge those you will have to take the effort to understand them.

It would be interesting to know how she feels about what her parents did to her back then. I know it was said she wanted to do it, but she was a still a child.

Your assuming that this girl shares your view on morals [again]. Well, most of us here in Europe don't see the human body as just an sexual object. Europe is more secular that the US and the difference in attitude is very noticeable in subjects as these. Magazines like Playboy and Hustler are on open display without a brownbag over them in the supermarket. And everyone thinks this is very normal.

In TV movies showing topless woman is no big deal here. I remember being with the guys from Laaz Rockit when they were watching an TV program, at one time a topless woman apeared. They started to chant and scream. My friends and me were *amazed*!! At first we did not know what the hell was going on. They had to explain that it was the topless woman.

On our beaches 90% of the woman are topless when sunbathing. And nobody gives a damn! The point is that the Scorpions sleeve is an expression of a European culture in the 70s that was precieved as the standard than. It was shared by parents and children. You have to take that into account and not replace European way of thinking with your own when you judge the Scorpions sleeve. Withing the context of *that* particulair time the Scorpions sleeve was with in the realms of the acceptible. Hell I've seen it hanging on walls in music shops back in 1977.

 

[delize]

What a hothead you are Hawk!!!! Gawd!! You read way to much in MY post. But whatever..... Not worth it Hawk to get so upset over something that won't mean anything a few days from now!! The point is you just didn't get what I was saying and I wasn't saying it to you in the first place.

I assume nothing. I said it was my opinion and it still is!!!!! You turn it into some moral argument if you wish.......be my guest.

Calm down...go have a beer or whatever

 

[Hawk]

What a hothead you are Hawk!!!! Gawd!! You read way to much in MY post. But whatever..... Not worth it Hawk to get so upset over something that won't mean anything a few days from now!! The point is you just didn't get what I was saying and I wasn't saying it to you in the first place.

You did not specify at who your message was directed but its too bad you feel offended That was not my intension and I feel bad about that.
I just wanted to have some healty debate. I never attacked you personally I only critized your arguments.

Nor was I upset or angry. I just though that your reasoning was not very clear. That's all.

I assume nothing. I said it was my opinion and it still is!!!!! You turn it into some moral argument if you wish.......be my guest.

Opinions are often based on proveable wrong assumptions delize.
You stated that "the parents took it upon themselves to decide that their young daughter's nude body could be displayed for the world to view." Thats asuming the girl had no voice it what happend. Its as clear as day. See also here:

It would be interesting to know how she feels about *what her parents did to her back then*.

This sounds as if she had been abused. Am I mistaken in thinking that delize?
I said that you were wrong in assuming that the girl was a passive factor in what happend and stand by it.

Calm down...go have a beer or whatever

Like I said, I am calm, its all good Its just a debate.

 

[delize]

Good! It's all good with me too.

I wasn't offened at all, Hawk. Just a little shocked. It's not the first time my words have been misunderstood.

 

[Sinner Rider]

And the bare breast on "In Trance"...gimme a break is more innocent than any Cannibal Corpse cover. I guess somebody has to clean up their minds and stop looking for sin where is nothing.

That is very true, I should clear up that I feel she was a little young for such a picture, but I could really careless. It dosent bother me to where I couldn't pick it up and jam to the cd. I have many, more offensive bands and coverart. Since we were discussing it, I just thought that it was kinda gross, I would rather see a little more mature girl naked. But it is called Virgin Killer, and if they would have put a 40 year old virgin on the cover, good chance that we would be having that discussion.

 

[JonnyD]

hahahahaha wow that was some intense reading

 

[Hawk]

Since we were discussing it, I just thought that it was kinda gross, I would rather see a little more mature girl naked. But it is called Virgin Killer, and if they would have put a 40 year old virgin on the cover, good chance that we would be having that discussion.

 

[Wyvern]

and if they would have put a 40 year old virgin on the cover, good chance that we would be having that discussion.

A 40 yo virgin? Wow, where can I find one is perfect for me

 

[Burkhard]

Coincidentally, in the current June-issue of the German metal magazine Rock Hard there´s the first part of a Scorpions history and they also talk about the cover of "Virgin Killer", so let´s see what Klaus Meine and Rudolf Schenker have to say about this in retrospect (I hope my translation is not too inaccurate):
Klaus: "That was really a very provocative cover. The label had pushed this idea very much, because already beforehand they had been aware that this would make quite a stir. Already way back then we didn´t feel really comfortable with this, and from today´s point of view I would say that this was a cover which had better not been done."
Rudolf: "We already had written the song "Virgin Killer" before. Actually, it meant to say that time is this "Virgin Killer". The idea to do this cover came from Stefan Böhle of our record company in cooperation with Klaus Martens, a journalist from Musikexpress."
Klaus: "We always liked to go to the limit, also as far as artwork is concerned, but that was definitely one step too far. The record company got, of course, the desired effect..."Virgin Killer" is not a cover we are very proud of, and today something like this would be absolutely unthinkable."
Rudolf: "15 years later we happened to get to know the girl who had been on this cover." (Unfortunately, Rudolf does not mention what she had to say about it in retrospect.)

 

[Hawk]

Mmm seems to me they are giving the politicaly correct answers to the questions. Afraid to get into trouble?

 

[sixxswine]

I've been looking into the Box of Scorpions that was issued last month. I haven't really listened to much of the stuff, prior to Love Drive...
I should revist it now & give it some spins.
The cover to Virgin Killer is a bit over the top, but remember the Blind Faith record
cover? With the nude gal holding the plane? She must have been a pre-teen too?
Oh well, it's an attention getter. That could be why something like that was used?
Who knows?

 

[Hawk]

As usual you are right on the mark 6.

 

[Sinner Rider]

Coincidentally, in the current June-issue of the German metal magazine Rock Hard there´s the first part of a Scorpions history and they also talk about the cover of "Virgin Killer", so let´s see what Klaus Meine and Rudolf Schenker have to say about this in retrospect (I hope my translation is not too inaccurate):
Klaus: "That was really a very provocative cover. The label had pushed this idea very much, because already beforehand they had been aware that this would make quite a stir. Already way back then we didn´t feel really comfortable with this, and from today´s point of view I would say that this was a cover which had better not been done."
Rudolf: "We already had written the song "Virgin Killer" before. Actually, it meant to say that time is this "Virgin Killer". The idea to do this cover came from Stefan Böhle of our record company in cooperation with Klaus Martens, a journalist from Musikexpress."
Klaus: "We always liked to go to the limit, also as far as artwork is concerned, but that was definitely one step too far. The record company got, of course, the desired effect..."Virgin Killer" is not a cover we are very proud of, and today something like this would be absolutely unthinkable."
Rudolf: "15 years later we happened to get to know the girl who had been on this cover." (Unfortunately, Rudolf does not mention what she had to say about it in retrospect.)

....Interesting. There have been allot of bands that have pushed the limits, I think that the reason of the bigger impact was the time.

 

[sixxswine]

As usual you are right on the mark 6.

I don't know about that, the old lady complains that I miss the crapper...
Thanks-\m/

 

[sixxswine]

And look at a few more of their covers, Love Drive, Animal Magnetism, Love at First Sting, Blackout, Savage Amusement? I recall walking into record stores & seeing those on the racks, you can't help but look!

 

[Hawk]

I don't know about that, the old lady complains that I miss the crapper...
Thanks-\m/

maybe you should not drink whole bottles of whiskey in one go before going to the crapper my friend You could end up with hanging above that crapper with the wrong end of your body

What do you think??

And look at a few more of their covers, Love Drive, Animal Magnetism, Love at First Sting, Blackout, Savage Amusement? I recall walking into record stores & seeing those on the racks, you can't help but look!

Yea their sleeves have always been errr, provocative to say the least

 

[Bryant]

Well here comes a disturbing story then
I was into Scorpions like most people my age and late to metal with "Blackout". Nevertheless and for some wierd reason I never were into them properly being my only album for years "The Best Of Rockers'n'Ballads". But being as I am an avid collector of tribute I get in touch with their earlier stuff thanks to 2 great tributes: "A Tribute To Scorpions" (Nuclear Blast) and "Another Piece Of Metal" (Dwell).

I had "Another Piece of Metal" and it just flat out disappeared. Avalon's version of "Alien Nation" absolutley blew me away and was the reason I bought it in the first place. Chity (Avalon's vocalist) does Klaus better than Klaus. That's one of the coolest covers I have ever heard.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

The album cover is a little disturbing!! Its like a 10 year old girl! Fly to Rainbow has a harsher sound, but I still like it. That is the first one right?

I think all of that stuff was a little overblown. I have seen the photo and the girl has boobs and hips. I am sure she is older than 10. I mean she is not on the cover with her legs spread wide with something shoved in her privates. I'm all for perverts getting harsh sentences who abuse children, but this was merely a photo of a teen girl and nothing more. I don't feel it was sexually explicit.
Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" was also banned in some places because of the "negative impact it could have on children" or some mumbo jumbo shit. Bullshit like that is stuff dreampt up by politicians that are too scared or too stupid to take on the real problems in society and the government.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

Intro:

I have been thinking about this for some time. This is the old school forum after all. I do feel sometimes that the 70s are a bit neglected here. Not surprising being that most of you are still teenyboppers

Anyway, I though since I was already around in that decade I could dust of some of the better albums of that period and present them here for you all. I don't presume that you never heard of the albums or that you don't know them, nor that I know all the good 70s album, I'd rather hope you'd see it as a re-introduction And of course as I say so many times; this is all IMHO.

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Scorpions - In Trance 1975


Great post Hawk !! My 70's metal/hard rock collection is pretty slim. I need to listen to some of the older Scorps stuff.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

The funny thing is, that in recent years child pornography laws were tightend so much that I now could be arrested because the album sleeve falls under the new and expanded definition!

The Scorpions kept releasing provocative sleeves until their breakthough album "Blackout" in 1980. Have a look here:

http://www.the-scorpions.com/english/discography/records/default.htm

Many people considered the sleeves of "Lovedrive" and Animal "Magnitism" also disturbing.

I never saw anything wrong with the covers, nor was I trying to jump on Sinner Rider's opinion of the cover, but too many people see nude art as porn and nude art if the subject is underage as child porn. I think the law should lock up these sick pervs that like to abuse children for 20 years or so and leave the artists alone.
I certainly agree that the line of what is "art" and "porn" is pretty gray and everyone has a difference of opinion of what is what, but I justget tired of the fucking government sticking it's big nose into everything. The PMRC was also a bunch of bullshit and they convinced the gvt. to put labels on these albums.
America has soldiers dying in Iraq for their country that won't sell them a beer outside of the military base because even though they are old enough to get shot, and shoot others, they aren't old enough to enjoy a beer with their steak at a restaurant. Go fucking figure. This is the government we live under, so I can see why they would get their panties in a wad over some fucking album cover.


Bryant