Heaven and Hell Records joins SOPA blackout

I missed Deron's statement yesterday. I'm glad he put something up. The way I understand these bills forums as we know them in general would stop existing. The liability would simply be too great for anyone to bother running one.
 
Something that is so bothersome about something like the subject at hand is not people's ignorance that can be understood, but their apathy about it. I would think just on this forum alone there would be much talk about it. And it is the same everywhere too, on Facebook everyone is so wrapped up in themselves and posting their videos that have apparently taken place of the Merry Hump Day pictures on MySpace. It is just disturbing that's all. Folks either don't think about it or they see that it is no big deal because the issue has been shelved or something like that; will that is actually not the case at all....
But what the hell I'll be dead soon, we all will so why should anything matter?

https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/
 
As long as people have their fast food and their TV, no one gives a fuck what else happens. It's pretty sad. I think what blew me away on the 18th was all of the BANDS that were in support of the blackout, and are completely against SOPA.
 
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As long as people have their fast food and their TV, no one gives a fuck what else happens. It's pretty sad. I think what blew me away on the 18th was all of the BANDS that were in support of the blackout, and are completely against SOPA.

We sent out our a newsletter to our mailing list of about 5,000 and several labels and press replied saying they were following. I thought that was pretty cool.
Still being so closely tied into the music world and associating with a lot of bands and such I just thought I would notice more support. Hell made if these things happened places like this forum are gone. But I suppose it doesn't matter that much in the long run.
 
nailz said:
As long as people have their fast food and their TV, no one gives a fuck what else happens. It's pretty sad. I think what blew me away on the 18th was all of the BANDS that were in support of the blackout, and are completely against SOPA.

Actually... I (not speaking for my band) am for SOPA/IP Protect. I made mention of this on Facebook.

Been following both bills and the revisions since last year when they were introduced in the house, and during the Judicial committees ruling. I've been actively involved with the bills since.

Bring on the hate mail.
 
Mardoch said:
You mind explaining why you support them?

(sigh) I suppose I can at least defend myself as I have already received a fair amount of hate mail since Thursday that I haven't replied to yet, ranging from fans to family members... but I doubt it will do much good to make anyone understand, sympathize or change their opinion on the matter. When it comes to possible censorship and infringement of certain liberties, it's going to obviously send people into a frenzy. Especially when it sneaks up on them out of nowhere, and gets put into the spotlight by those campaigning an opposition.

Before I explain my support of the bills, let me state that I am a conservative, I believe in smaller government, and with that I am also a believer in capitalism. When it comes to politics, there is never really a cut-and-dry approach, and the core values can sometimes conflict with each other and you might be asked to choose between them if there is no reasonable compromise... these bills are just as such. Also, I don't want to make this seem like I am targeting anyone here, as I know a vast majority of music fans here, many who I consider good friends, are honest and supportive of music in general.

This is a very emotional subject for me, and has been for many years now, and yes, I take it personally. Why? I have sat on the sidelines for almost a decade, and watched the music world and technology change and progress (or lack there of), and have become very bitter and jaded with how consumers (fans?) have become adversarial, feeling that they have this new sense of entitlement with the budding technology, and seem to feel that they are doing me a favor by taking my creative works without my permission or reimbursement and calling it "free advertising."

Being a musician, I love what I do, I love to create, it is more than a passion, it is a very personal outlet of creativity that drives me to have an actual purpose to wake up in the morning. I have no desire to be a "Rock star" or even live off my music, however, I would like to still find some worth in continuing without going into further debt, selling my personal property, and making unnecessary life choices like between paying the electric bill or releasing an album. What I do is considered a hobby, being that I don't live off of what I make from it (which is very little, or nothing at all) and have a day job... in fact I spend three to five times more on it than I see come back. I want to have the freedom to dictate if I will give away my art or ask for compensation. I have become disenchanted at not even being able to have an opportunity to pay myself back on my creative works, having my work treated like it is a disposable commodity, and told to just "suck it up" and figure out another way to generate a return on my investment by both the tech industry and consumers.

These bills are about money on both the opposing and supportive sides of the debate. Period. The entertainment industry has been fairly up front about this since day one. However, the tech giants (Google more so than any other) have politically side-stepped this same question, and hide behind the first amendment as a clever shield to the reality of what they stand to lose. If anyone out there feels the tech giants are looking out for you, and your best interest in freedom of speech and keeping the web "free", and sticking it to the fat cats in the entertainment business, then you are fooling yourself. They too, much like the entertainment industry, are all large corporations too. They are all businesses, they all have margins to keep up, and many with profits into the billions, so it's rather ignorant to believe they don't have a general vested interest in these bills outside of what they are saying right now publicly, because if they were to pass, they all stand to lose money... a lot of it.

The ethical part of the equation was the best way to wake everyone up in the general public to this and rally the troops. These bills were both on the verge of passing until the tech giants threw a hail marry pass in the 11th hour after fighting against them behind the scenes for almost a year now, and I give them kudos on this, as playing on peoples emotions is a sure fire tactical advantage that they pulled out of the deck at the perfect time. It worked, just reading through all the comments in this thread, on face book and everywhere else, it worked fantastically. The only thing I find laughable, is that everyone was linking to Google and Wikipedia's statements... not the actual bills themselves. This leads me to believe that most people didn't even read the bills and understand the reason why they are even being considered as possible law and what the actual effect it will have. If they DID read the bills, they might not have had such a knee-jerk reaction to opposing it. I'm not saying it would sway anyone to support them, only that it would give them a better understanding to what they are about and why they are in the house. Sadly, the public just logged on the intertube Thursday morning and saw the tech giants protests and only viewed it as big brother stepping in and censorship on the web... and thus it was game over. It's also impressive that the ripple effect was so strong, some of the co-sponsors (including my own state representative) decided to flip-flop on it after a year of fighting tooth and nail for it to pass. Must be an election year for them... oh wait, it is. How convenient.

So, why do I support the bills? Besides everything I've already mentioned above, the bottom line is that I am tired of the excuses and am sick of being told that I have to just "deal with it or pack up and go home" (non-verbatim quote from Google senior council Kent Walker). As an artist, pardon my being overly offended that I can create something, spend money on creating it, release it to the public on my own accord to share with people with the hope of being mildly compensated for my effort, and within a blink of an eye, have someone in my own back yard take it from me, upload it onto a website/server in another country, and allow the entire world, including EVERYONE ELSE in my OWN COUNTRY to take it without giving me any sort of compensation. All the while being told that nothing can be done because the server/website is based OUTSIDE the United states, and that chasing down those uploading/downloading MY copy written material WITHIN the United States is a waste of resources because EVERYONE is doing it? Does this really seem right to anyone? Is this really fair? Is it seriously justifiable? I certainly hope not....

Do I want the government involved? No... absolutely not. It goes against my beliefs as a conservative. would I much rather have the tech industry police themselves on this issue? Of course I would. However, The tech giants over the last decade, especially over the last year when these bills were introduced, have proven that they are not only uninterested in it doing such a thing , but feel that it isn't their problem, it is the intellectual property owners problem, and they are not responsible in the least, and that is why I am in support of the bill. Until someone is willing to take responsibility and do something on their own accord in the tech world to find a solution that is in-line to the copyright laws that they are blatantly in total defiance of, then at best... I have to rely on the government to lobby the tech industry to find a solution that doesn't compromise my intellectual property rights and my copy written material, and at worst... FORCE them to take responsibility and find a solution. And that is the bottom line.

I guess that makes me one of the bad guys. But no worries, these bills are pretty much dead at this point, so I'll just deal with it, or pack up and go home.
 

Actually, I agree with you on how artists get shafted, while so called "fans" steal their material, and call it "promotion."

In all fairness it should be pointed out that Tech losses a lot of money to piracy also. However, in a direct altercation between artists and tech, I'd be inclined to support artists.

I definitely understand why artists need a solution to this. However, these bills encompassed far more than music or movie downloads, and I'm strongly opposed to the US Government regulating any part of the internet.

The government doesn't own it. The government didn't invent it. The government doesn't maintain it. So, the government definitely shouldn't get to regulate it.
Everyone here knows, or should know, that once the government claims domain over any part of anything they will do nothing but expand their intrusiveness in the future. These bills were a toehold which would have allowed the government to expand into any aspect of the web they choose. It had to be stopped.

Perhaps people will take note on the day the Artist Blackout starts, but it's your fight to win or lose... not the US Governments.
 
It's funny how you say you've read these bills, and want them passed based on your own perspective of "losing money to piracy" (lol no one would actually buy your shit who's downloading it for free anyway, but that's different.) I also wonder if you understand anything about how the internet works and how these bills would threaten it, beyond "stealing" from you.
 
The only thing I find laughable, is that everyone was linking to Google and Wikipedia's statements... not the actual bills themselves. This leads me to believe that most people didn't even read the bills and understand the reason why they are even being considered as possible law and what the actual effect it will have. If they DID read the bills, they might not have had such a knee-jerk reaction to opposing it.

Okay, first let me say that I do respect what you are doing as a musician. Hell, I've even bought a few Katagory V albums over the past years. I still would like the get the latest one. I am about to go do some shopping on Lance's website, so I may grab it there (if available).

However, with that said, what I also find equally laughable is how many of the "pro-SOPA" types go and crow on about how "nobody read the bill". Well, guess what? I DID read the bill, and as far as I am concerned, you could call it a rose and it still stinks like shit! After wading through all that legalese (why you think most people would rather just read the Wiki article anyway?), it did not change my mind one lick and still think it is big media and big government trying to take a mile just to save an inch.

Yes, I agree that something should be done about the piracy that is going on. At least I am seeing sensible things being done in recent years like offering up content for a more reasonable price in formats that people actually prefer (instead of locking it all up behind draconian DRM and charging as much or more for it than the physical copy).

The major issue I have is that I did not see ANYTHING in the bill that would stop, say a record label from abusing this thing to attempt to bring down a site just because "it doesn't like it", although it may have NOTHING to do with actual piracy. We have already seen attempts like this with regards to the DMCA. Lexmark vs Static Control Components ring a bell? Howabout the whole issue with DeCSS. The original intent of DeCSS was so that Jon can play his LEGALLY BOUGHT DVDs on his Linux rig and had nothing to do with piracy. It was entirely possible to pirate DVDs without needing DeCSS. So now, there is this bill which will essentially give the big media carte blanche ability to basically shut-down the internet in the name of keeping anybody from illegally downloading their precious Justin Beiber songs.

Yes, I want to see artists get their due and fair compensation for their work. Hell, I just bought several albums off of Scott Mosher in direct support of his work, despite the fact that he offered up his entire catalog for free download. I've also spent quite a considerable sum to sponsor bands to play at this nifty little thing that Glenn puts together for us called ProgPower. But at the same time, when I see what is essentially a power grab here, I am raising all kinds of red flags and my "bullshit" meter was pegging into the red zone, so I am going to squawk and be all in support of the anti-SOPA protests here.

Unfortunately, there will always be that small percentage that will just go and download and don't give a shit about anything, just like there will always be that small percentage that will try to shoplift at the stores, despite efforts to combat it. There are already plenty of laws in place that could and should be enforced against such people. We don't need to be piling even more draconian measures on top of the ones we already have.
 
One of my last releases I discovered up on 11 sites for free download and one even attempting to sell it. They popped up in no time after the release came out. I personally believe it was through some of these "trust" webzines but that is another story. Anyway it greatly pisses me off but still I cannot be in support of this. It was merely a mass strike to take a lot of control at once.
 
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be compensated for your art. Expecting your little compensation to be more important than the openness of the entire internet is flat out selfish. There can be, or should be, mechanisms to fight piracy that don't include infringing on the rights of hundreds of millions of people.

The recent Megaupload takedown has shown that the government already has the power to eliminate piracy strongholds. Do they really need even more power?

In the grand scheme of things, making a living, or even money, off of music is a relatively new concept. I'll leave my commentary on that out...just food for thought.
 
(lol no one would actually buy your shit who's downloading it for free anyway, but that's different.) /QUOTE]

That was a bit uncalled for. So do you know for a fact that their albums did not sell or are you just ASSuming?
I did wonder myself if there was that much downloading of the band going on.

It's the age-old pro-piracy argument 'a download does not equal a lost sale'. Nothing band specific at all.
 
funny-facebook-fails-failbook-sopa-via-lotr.jpg
 
In the grand scheme of things, making a living, or even money, off of music is a relatively new concept. I'll leave my commentary on that out...just food for thought.

Mmm.. I wouldn't say that much. Recorded music, sure, but people have been compensated for performing for hundreds of years.

Just not to the crazy-ass status that they're getting, now. But that really has less to do with album sales than the selling of an entire brand.
 
If only people had this much energy behind protesting NDAA.

'Hey you with the long hair and Sodom shirt... you look dangerous... come with us... '
 
Mmm.. I wouldn't say that much. Recorded music, sure, but people have been compensated for performing for hundreds of years.

Just not to the crazy-ass status that they're getting, now. But that really has less to do with album sales than the selling of an entire brand.

You're right. I should have specified recorded music.